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Author Topic: Rogers nothing added flour for Canadians  (Read 753 times)

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Offline Brent-r

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Rogers nothing added flour for Canadians
« on: April 24, 2019, 09:50:42 PM »
When our local Italian grocer told us he could not get Caputo Napoli or the other blue bag in Canada because the importer was not bringing it in, we went on a search for a substitute.

We found Rogers Unbleached with nothing added, except the mandatory B vitamins.  I found it on sale 22 lbs for less than $ 10. Cdn.  The package claims 4 g of protein per 30 g of flour so I would make that about 13.2 %.   Late this morning I mixed up a batch to make 2 skins at about 62% water shooting for 250 g balls.  That looked much to dry so while it was in the mixer I added a bit more water and unfortunately did not measure.  I ended up with 2 balls in the 285 g range.  I did add about a half teaspoon of malt and ADY from the table and 3% salt.  The yeast added was proportioned so I could see how the dough felt this evening. 
What a pleasant surprise.   It was the easiest to open I have ever tried, and that includes several brands of Italian 00.  Soft smooth and to my surprise got it to 18" diameter with only one pinhole.

The truth will be in the baking, but for handling I'm really impressed and looking forward to a cook.   Such a great feeling dough at such a great price.  I'll update in a day or two when we bake it.
Brent

Offline Brent-r

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Re: Rogers nothing added flour for Canadians
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2019, 08:45:43 AM »
So after a great opening last night I couldn't resist try a quick bake to see what the flavor was like.  It had been lightly rolled into balls after the first opening and sat for maybe a half hour and then we tried to re-open to small skins for a griddle test.  Wow  what a different.  The second opening was almost impossible.  I would call it bucky.  Very elastic.  Lots of spring back.  But the flavor was great so this morning I've just made a new lot for a 9 hour ferment and try for dinner.
Brent

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Rogers nothing added flour for Canadians
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2019, 11:07:32 AM »
There is no point in calculating the protein % from the nutritionals. It literally tells you nothing useful for pizzamaking. At best, all you can learn from the nutritionals about the protein is that 4g > 3g, and even that may not be meaningful.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline muchohucho

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Re: Rogers nothing added flour for Canadians
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2019, 02:27:42 PM »
Really need to get the spec sheet to understand what the flour is all about.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Rogers nothing added flour for Canadians
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2019, 02:56:39 PM »
At the end of the day, the specs really don't matter, if you're making the pizza you want to make. I've said it many times: the best thing you can do to improve your pizza making is to make pizza. Obsessing over flour accomplishes very little and in many cases is counter-productive.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline Brent-r

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Re: Rogers nothing added flour for Canadians
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2019, 04:42:30 PM »
Yes Craig ... absolutely

I really tried hard to find a source of Caputo Napoli in Canada and that would simply take the flour out of the equation.  We all know its about the best and there seems to be the best knowledge base how to use it.

Now we'll have to start fresh.  This Rogers stuff looks good so far.  In about 2 hours we'll have our first pies with it and begin the refining of formula for it.
Brent

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Rogers nothing added flour for Canadians
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2019, 05:05:30 PM »
I think you'll be pleasantly surprised how easy it can be to adapt other flours to make great pizza.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline Matthew

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Re: Rogers nothing added flour for Canadians
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2019, 05:41:34 PM »
Yes Craig ... absolutely

I really tried hard to find a source of Caputo Napoli in Canada and that would simply take the flour out of the equation.  We all know its about the best and there seems to be the best knowledge base how to use it.

Now we'll have to start fresh.  This Rogers stuff looks good so far.  In about 2 hours we'll have our first pies with it and begin the refining of formula for it.


Brent,
The current batch of Caputo Napoli is absolute garbage.  We have some really great flours here. If you are adamant on Caputo you can get it at MVR along with many other flours.  In my opinion, 5 Stagioni is much better and is readily available.  Ardent Mills makes a 00 flour that I have been meaning to try. I think that it is about $20 for a 20kg bag.  I also like 3 Star flour a lot.  If you donít mind driving to Scarborough you can get some really good flour at Grain Process Enterprise.


Matt
« Last Edit: April 25, 2019, 05:45:01 PM by Matthew »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Rogers nothing added flour for Canadians
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2019, 05:55:16 PM »
Brent,

What Craig says about not relying on nutritional information to determine protein content is correct, and the rules and regulations on these matters, including rounding of numbers, appear to be very similar to the US, as you can see from this Canadian document:

http://www.inspection.gc.ca/food/requirements/labelling/industry/nutrition-labelling/nutrition-facts-table/eng/1389198568400/1389198597278?chap=3

So, even if we assume that the 30 grams of flour is an exact quantity, the protein quantity is subject to rounding. And even if the 30 grams is a rounded number, it may be that the rounding was to the nearest gram. In this vein, if you look at the nutrition information given for the Rogers No Additive All Purpose flour at https://www.rogersfoods.com/product/rogers-all-purpose-flour-unbleached/, you will see that the serving weight is given as three tablespoons. That led me to weigh three level tablespoons of a flour from my refrigerator, and I got a weight of 29 grams.

Your best bet might be to call Rogers at the number given in the above Rogers link and ask the person who answers or to whom you might be referred what the protein content is for the abovementioned Rogers flour as determined at the laboratory level, not as might be calculated from the nutrition information. I have done this sort of thing several times over the years, even for Canadian flours, and was given the correct protein numbers. They might even tell you the rated absorption rate for the flour so that you can start with a value that Rogers deem applicable to their flour. Otherwise, you can experiment with different values until you achieve success. That is consistent with Craig's advice to new pizza makers.

Peter

Offline Brent-r

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Re: Rogers nothing added flour for Canadians
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2019, 08:21:22 PM »
Beginners luck with the new Rogers dough.   The first pizza was one of our best.  Based on the Poppey Pie, gruyere, peccorino, spinach, fried diced onion and garlic on a white sauce base with a few bits of salmon.  It was a smaller diameter than the second one.  The second one had no body in the center.  You can easily see the difference in size comparing the wooden platter underneath.  It was tomato sauce base and the rest as above but without the spinach.  The salmon on the tomato base was not good at all.

The dough formula was
300 g Rogers
195 g water
.24 g ADY
9 g salt
2 g malt.
mixed, rested, stretched and ferment at room temp from 10:00 AM to 6:00 PM at room temp with a bit of a bath of
warm water to boost the ferment for the last hour.  There were very few gas bubbles on the bottom of Rubbermaids.

Next time for a one day shot, I'd use more yeast but the next time will be an overnight.
The oven was about 740 -780 on the stone.

Overall we're pretty happy.  Some learning curve ahead.
Brent

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Offline Brent-r

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Re: Rogers nothing added flour for Canadians
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2019, 07:59:24 AM »
well after a few weeks of not making a single pizza we got back at it yesterday and used the Rogers flour.
Because this is a 'nothing added'  flour we added a bit of 'dough conditioner' from https://www.vanillafoodcompany.ca/Dough-Conditioner-Bread-Improver-Professional-p/saf-27251-ibgrn-par.htm, which is basically just a bit of citric acid,   and a bit of malt

we got the best tasting crust we've every had in the last few years.   can't wait to try for a repeat  !
Brent

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Rogers nothing added flour for Canadians
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2019, 02:09:14 PM »
Brent;
That's ascorbic acid, not citric acid. The AA is most likely encapsulated to provide a slower reaction as AA uncoated reacts in the mixing bowl. The enzymes which would be appropriate for use in a bread improver are most likely oxidative enzymes which function in a similar manner to low levels of potassium bromate. The rest appears to be nothing more than enriched wheat flour used as a filler/diluent. In short, it appears that you may have taken the nothing added flour and turned it into a regular bread type flour by adding the improver.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline Brent-r

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Re: Rogers nothing added flour for Canadians
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2019, 05:21:03 PM »
yes,  I knew it was ascorbic but my old brain could not come up with the correct name.
there was a hint of toasted bread to the flavor, which we all liked.
No accounting for individual tastes !!

Brent

Offline Brent-r

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Re: Rogers nothing added flour for Canadians
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2019, 02:32:29 PM »
we made our second batch of pizzas with this flower and the great flavor we got was not an accident.  The second batch we all thought were the best tasting dough we ever made. 

We have a bit of an issue with the dough not stretching our well and getting too thin in places and holes opening.  I have been reading under Ask the Dough Doc  about how much kneading and
just need to the point that the skin on the balls gets smooth. Temp about 80.  We let them rise
at room temp for only 3 hours.  about 62% water.   We added a bit of the dough conditioner and a bit of malt .... both less than 1%

Maybe this flour needs longer kneading. ?????
Brent

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Rogers nothing added flour for Canadians
« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2019, 02:54:48 PM »
It sounds like the dough just needs more fermentation when it's made with that specific flour. It that's out of the question you can also increase the finished dough temperature to something in the 84 to 86F range, that will provide more fermentation to the dough within the same time period.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

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Offline Brent-r

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Re: Rogers nothing added flour for Canadians
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2019, 06:43:09 AM »
OK Tom  Its getting better.
we made a couple more with a plan to try increasing the fermentation time
this time we made the dough up at about 10:00 AM and balled it at about 10:30 and let it
sit at room temp until about 6:00.   It opened better than the emergency 3 hour dough.
Next step .. make up a dough later today and give it 24 hours in the fridge.
Still impressed with the flavor.
Brent

Offline mishanctrl

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Re: Rogers nothing added flour for Canadians
« Reply #16 on: August 22, 2019, 10:27:06 PM »
I use Rogers bread flour for my pizza making. Back in February I emailed them about their protein levels and their response was:

Our bread flour has a protein level between 13-14% and our all purpose flours, both no additive and bleached are between 11-13% protein.
The white bread flour is unbleached.

Offline Brent-r

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Re: Rogers nothing added flour for Canadians
« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2019, 07:58:18 AM »
that's interesting    thanks for sharing it

we think the best tasting pizzas we have made have been with the Rogers flour.
we do add a bit of dough conditioner and malt and like the colour we get.
Brent

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