A D V E R T I S E M E N T


Author Topic: We are finally rid of Postmates  (Read 4586 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline waltertore

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3494
  • Location: Reno, Nevada
  • # 1 RATED PIZZERIA IN USA ON YELP
    • Smiling With Hope Pizza
We are finally rid of Postmates
« on: May 09, 2019, 04:53:08 PM »
After a year of being bombarded with third party delivery services I was able to get all but  Postmates  to take us off their websites.  They put you on  them without asking and then send drivers to place/pick up orders.    I sent countless emails, told drivers not to come back (drivers change all the time), and to their phone people when they would call each time after we refused an order to never come here again.  I threatened legal action, hung up, yelled, to no avail.  I put signs in our windows, talked to attorneys,  as well but nothing worked.  We had to screen all calls for pick up and all walk in customers we didn't recognize.  It was a huge hassle. Customers would ask "what is Postmates" when they saw our sign and it consumed a lot of our time which could have been spent in a million better ways.  The Reno newspaper is going to run a story on our journey with this new phenomenon.  The lawyer said my tenacity/generating publicity about this  is what got us off.  Today I took the sign down from our window and we can go back to running our pizzeria the way we intended it to run- no delivery ever.  Walter
SMILING WITH HOPE PIZZA MISSION STATEMENT
TO CREATE HOPE AND MEANING IN THE LIVES OF PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES
http://www.smilingwithhopepizza.com/

Offline jkb

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6158
Re: We are finally rid of Postmates
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2019, 06:06:08 PM »
I wouldn't want my pizza to be judged after it's spent even a minute in a box.
John

Offline TXCraig1

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 26666
  • Location: Houston, TX
  • Pizza is not bread.
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: We are finally rid of Postmates
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2019, 06:10:16 PM »
I heard of Postemates for the first time just this week. What is the problem they (and other 3rd party delivery services) cause? From what I've read, it sound like that trend is not slowing?
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline megan45

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 250
  • Location: Durham, nc
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: We are finally rid of Postmates
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2019, 06:21:39 PM »
Good for you for sticking to your guns and not allowing those parasites to profit from your work.

I hope the paper still runs the story so folks realize what a sleazbag outfit they are, and punish them accordingly.

Better yet, maybe some past Postmates customers who ended up not getting their orders will see the story and sue their a$$es for false advertising.

Offline waltertore

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3494
  • Location: Reno, Nevada
  • # 1 RATED PIZZERIA IN USA ON YELP
    • Smiling With Hope Pizza
Re: We are finally rid of Postmates
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2019, 01:51:51 AM »
thanks everyone.  The problem these delivery services cause us is this - you turn your product over to an unknown person who needs no food handling training, to take your food to the customer.  If it gets messed up in transit, takes hours to get there, etc,   due to them we get the bad rap. Many of the drivers that came in looked one step from total mental and financial collapse.  No way for us. 
SMILING WITH HOPE PIZZA MISSION STATEMENT
TO CREATE HOPE AND MEANING IN THE LIVES OF PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES
http://www.smilingwithhopepizza.com/

A D V E R T I S E M E N T


Offline tracy

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 74
  • Location: Maryland
Re: We are finally rid of Postmates
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2019, 07:23:02 AM »
So these services do all of this without establishing a contract with you?  If I'm interpreting the situation correctly, effectively, the drivers are buying the pizza from you, then acting as middlemen and delivering it to the end customer, all while charging a delivery and service fee presumably.  And as you said walter, the end customer likely either doesn't know or just doesn't care that they are technically not your customers, they are customers of these services.  But if there is a problem with the order, it becomes your problem?  As you indicated in your first post, I have no idea how this is legal, other than some weird application of first sale doctrine, but that applies to copyrighted works, not food.

Offline TXCraig1

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 26666
  • Location: Houston, TX
  • Pizza is not bread.
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: We are finally rid of Postmates
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2019, 08:47:42 AM »
From what I've been reading, it sounds like it's just going to get worse. Other than fast food and fast casual, the restaurant business in general looks kind of bleak. Obviously there are specific exceptions, but in general, dining out seems to be dying along with it's customers, at least for the moment. Some interesting stats here: https://foodondemandnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Delivery-Overview-Andrew-Charles.pdf
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline scott r

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3595
  • Age: 49
  • Location: boston
  • I Love Pizzafreaks!
Re: We are finally rid of Postmates
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2019, 09:53:15 AM »
Walter, im sorry you have to deal with this, but I have to admit that it does make me feel better that someone else went through the same thing I did!   We have different names for the services that do this in Boston, but its the same thing.   I had no idea it was even happening the first few months we were open because the drivers try to make it look like they are regular customers.   We figured out what was going on when the complaints started coming in from customers thinking that we were responsible for the drivers dropping pizzas or being rude etc.  One thing we found out was that it would sometimes take over an hour for the pizzas to get to the customer after the driver would pick them up because the drivers would wait until there were orders from a bunch of different restaurants.. then go pick up food... then deliver it in batches.   

I cringe every time I hand someone a take out pizza, so I cant imagine what it was like after our pizza sat in the trunk of someones car for an hour before it was brought to their door.   Like you we went to battle and finally were able to flush out who was doing it and get them to remove us from their websites. It took months though... unfortunately it definitely did damage to my yelp and google ratings in that time. 

Now the latest scam is slicelife.   Watch out for that one.  It took me months to get them to pull it down from our google page (they are partners) and it went away for a few months and then popped back up again.  I have had to threaten legal action to get my menu removed... and then when they finally did remove (their incorrect interpretation of) my menu things got way worse.    They still left the link up right there on my google page under my name and my ratings/reviews that people would click on thinking that they were ordering from me, and the potential customers were redirected to a list of other pizzerias in my area!
« Last Edit: May 10, 2019, 10:14:33 AM by scott r »

Offline waltertore

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3494
  • Location: Reno, Nevada
  • # 1 RATED PIZZERIA IN USA ON YELP
    • Smiling With Hope Pizza
Re: We are finally rid of Postmates
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2019, 12:17:30 PM »
Walter, im sorry you have to deal with this, but I have to admit that it does make me feel better that someone else went through the same thing I did!   We have different names for the services that do this in Boston, but its the same thing.   I had no idea it was even happening the first few months we were open because the drivers try to make it look like they are regular customers.   We figured out what was going on when the complaints started coming in from customers thinking that we were responsible for the drivers dropping pizzas or being rude etc.  One thing we found out was that it would sometimes take over an hour for the pizzas to get to the customer after the driver would pick them up because the drivers would wait until there were orders from a bunch of different restaurants.. then go pick up food... then deliver it in batches.   

I cringe every time I hand someone a take out pizza, so I cant imagine what it was like after our pizza sat in the trunk of someones car for an hour before it was brought to their door.   Like you we went to battle and finally were able to flush out who was doing it and get them to remove us from their websites. It took months though... unfortunately it definitely did damage to my yelp and google ratings in that time. 

Now the latest scam is slicelife.   Watch out for that one.  It took me months to get them to pull it down from our google page (they are partners) and it went away for a few months and then popped back up again.  I have had to threaten legal action to get my menu removed... and then when they finally did remove (their incorrect interpretation of) my menu things got way worse.    They still left the link up right there on my google page under my name and my ratings/reviews that people would click on thinking that they were ordering from me, and the potential customers were redirected to a list of other pizzerias in my area!

That is terrible.  We have had to weed them out as well.  We are in a neighborhood away from downtown and I would guess about 70% of our customers are regulars.  When we get new faces we ask - is this your first time here and if they say yes we ask if they are locals, tourists (get a lot here for the skiing, lake Tahoe, outdoors.  This has helped weed out the delivery services and most have a profile/body language that gives them away. Fortunately we are not on any of their websites as of today. I had the same problem with Google and DoorDash being linked to our page.  It took months to get off that and we got a lot of help from the daily newspaper food writer who did a big article on DoorDash and featured us.  There is a google group called Reno Foodies and they have over 7,000 members.  They also help in these fights.  The paper is publishing a story on our Postmate ordeal.  I hope we both can continue to weed out these jerks and I will keep an eye for slicelife.  John Arena has a hot topic going on facebook about delivery services. The one sure cure is to do cash only.  We have an ATM machine 100 yards from our door so if things get too crazy with this stuff we will go that route. 
« Last Edit: May 10, 2019, 12:24:16 PM by waltertore »
SMILING WITH HOPE PIZZA MISSION STATEMENT
TO CREATE HOPE AND MEANING IN THE LIVES OF PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES
http://www.smilingwithhopepizza.com/

Offline jkb

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6158
Re: We are finally rid of Postmates
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2019, 12:23:56 PM »
Many of the drivers that came in looked one step from total mental and financial collapse.

 and they probably offer the option to supplement your order with meth or opioids...
John

A D V E R T I S E M E N T


Offline TXCraig1

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 26666
  • Location: Houston, TX
  • Pizza is not bread.
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: We are finally rid of Postmates
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2019, 12:52:21 PM »
That is terrible.  We have had to weed them out as well.  We are in a neighborhood away from downtown and I would guess about 70% of our customers are regulars.

You're fortunate to be in such a location. I suspect there are MANY restaurants that will eventually be forced  to work with these services or fail. The data suggests that customers are going to continue to demand delivery and in rapidly increasing numbers. Even then they may fail. It won't be long until virtual restaurants (basically a commissary) start popping up all over. Traditional restaurants won't be able to compete due to the rent differential and labor efficiency, and the younger demos don't seem to care about the experience.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline waltertore

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3494
  • Location: Reno, Nevada
  • # 1 RATED PIZZERIA IN USA ON YELP
    • Smiling With Hope Pizza
Re: We are finally rid of Postmates
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2019, 01:55:51 PM »
You're fortunate to be in such a location. I suspect there are MANY restaurants that will eventually be forced  to work with these services or fail. The data suggests that customers are going to continue to demand delivery and in rapidly increasing numbers. Even then they may fail. It won't be long until virtual restaurants (basically a commissary) start popping up all over. Traditional restaurants won't be able to compete due to the rent differential and labor efficiency, and the younger demos don't seem to care about the experience.

I firmly believe that if you offer a true mom/pop setup like we do these trends will not have an impact.  Our customers come in early to sit, chat, and relax.  Their young children color with markers and paper we supply.  Some now bus tables, and many want to come here for their birthday party because Judy hugs them and we talk to them.  It is like family.  Most say our shop is an oasis in todays techno blitz. With no TV, Wifi, booze, music, it is a step back in time to when I grew up.  Young people are coming more and more saying we are hip :) With me making all the pies and my wife on the register/greet/phone you are guaranteed a true old school experience and people are longing for this.  Today you are an unknown in most restaurants.  We get to know you, your family, your ups and downs, celebrations, etc.  It is easy to shine in todays restaurant world by giving such service and consistent quality. 
SMILING WITH HOPE PIZZA MISSION STATEMENT
TO CREATE HOPE AND MEANING IN THE LIVES OF PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES
http://www.smilingwithhopepizza.com/

Offline TXCraig1

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 26666
  • Location: Houston, TX
  • Pizza is not bread.
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: We are finally rid of Postmates
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2019, 02:17:00 PM »
I firmly believe that if you offer a true mom/pop setup like we do these trends will not have an impact.

The key words being "setup like we do."

That may be true to an extent, but supply and demand are what they are. Part of your success is because you probably don't have a lot of competition "setup like we do." If more and more places "setup like we do" opened near you, at some point it would affect your business. Supply and demand vary from market-to-market as well. What you experience in a Reno neighborhood may be very different from other markets.

"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline bigMoose

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 707
  • Location: OH
  • Kneading is Happiness!
Re: We are finally rid of Postmates
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2019, 02:46:37 PM »
Walter, so much truth in this statement:
Quote
...you are guaranteed a true old school experience and people are longing for this. 
I just read that the average American has not made a new friend in 5 years... so sad.  So much of the community that makes us human has been replaced with cold silicon and plastic in a phone or computer.

Folks long for connection, to talk with someone who cares.  ... to share the journey of life together.   

As you shared your life's history you were always on the cutting edge, I think you are there on this issue also!
All the best, Dave

Offline waltertore

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3494
  • Location: Reno, Nevada
  • # 1 RATED PIZZERIA IN USA ON YELP
    • Smiling With Hope Pizza
Re: We are finally rid of Postmates
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2019, 05:43:13 PM »
Walter, so much truth in this statement:I just read that the average American has not made a new friend in 5 years... so sad.  So much of the community that makes us human has been replaced with cold silicon and plastic in a phone or computer.

Folks long for connection, to talk with someone who cares.  ... to share the journey of life together.   

As you shared your life's history you were always on the cutting edge, I think you are there on this issue also!

Thanks!  There will never be any competition for us so to speak as I think(excluding part time food trucks/mobile WFO operations)  only Norma, Dom of Defara's, Anthony M of Una Pizza NYC, and myself, make all the pies and are onsite for all hours of operation and involved in all prep as well.  Lots of the big name pizza guys customers have  come through our shop multiple times and they hail our pie for its consistency and quality.  They tell me the multi shop set ups are inconsistent on this front.  Paulie Gee declared us "the greatest little pizzeria in America" and told me we would crush it in NYC.  The problem would be the rent could be 40 times what we pay and I couldn't survive a month with our model.  It is easy to do what we do in a smaller market like here in Reno but the big profit isn't there.  Luckily Judy and I have lived simple and realize the more material things one has the more maintenance and consuming it is.  My one wish would be to live above, below, or behind our shop.   Unfortunately there isn't that kind of set up here.  Walter
« Last Edit: May 10, 2019, 05:46:20 PM by waltertore »
SMILING WITH HOPE PIZZA MISSION STATEMENT
TO CREATE HOPE AND MEANING IN THE LIVES OF PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES
http://www.smilingwithhopepizza.com/

A D V E R T I S E M E N T


Offline waltertore

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3494
  • Location: Reno, Nevada
  • # 1 RATED PIZZERIA IN USA ON YELP
    • Smiling With Hope Pizza
Re: We are finally rid of Postmates
« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2019, 05:56:49 PM »
You're fortunate to be in such a location. I suspect there are MANY restaurants that will eventually be forced  to work with these services or fail. The data suggests that customers are going to continue to demand delivery and in rapidly increasing numbers. Even then they may fail. It won't be long until virtual restaurants (basically a commissary) start popping up all over. Traditional restaurants won't be able to compete due to the rent differential and labor efficiency, and the younger demos don't seem to care about the experience.

We are lucky but it was strictly a lack of $ decision to come to Reno and are we sure glad we did it :)  It is one of the last places that has decent weather and still is affordable compared to bigger cities.  With all the growth of CA transplants, TESLA, and tons of other companies that bring employees in from around the world, it makes for a nice little nitch for us.   We have more employees that we can use and most are not dependent on it to live so are very flexible with hours and going home early when slow.   They make a lot more money than comparable part time positions pay and we work with their college schedules. We also have a 69 year retiree that opens early in the morning and turns on the ovens/helps with prep.  She retired recently from running the county library system and had 200 people under her.   Thus she is reliable as all and has great culinary intuition.  All said and done on a normal week I am working about 50-55 hours 6 days a week.  We are such an oddball in todays food scene with our approach both food and hiring people with disabilities that the public supports us beyond our wildest dreams.  I get to chat a lot at lunch Tues/Wed/Thursday as they tend to ebb and flow on the slow side and weeknight dinner are often the same.  Tonight and tomorrow night I will not look up or get my head out of the ovens till we close and we make 50% of the weeks income in those 8 hours.  I couldn't handle that 5 days a week at my age.  There will always be an audience for days gone by service and food quality and consistency.  Most people are too greedy for all the green dough :)
« Last Edit: May 10, 2019, 06:11:42 PM by waltertore »
SMILING WITH HOPE PIZZA MISSION STATEMENT
TO CREATE HOPE AND MEANING IN THE LIVES OF PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES
http://www.smilingwithhopepizza.com/

Offline waltertore

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3494
  • Location: Reno, Nevada
  • # 1 RATED PIZZERIA IN USA ON YELP
    • Smiling With Hope Pizza
Re: We are finally rid of Postmates
« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2019, 06:03:31 PM »
Made it through a Friday night with not one Postmates or any 3rd party delivery service!!  If in the future if we have no choice but to cave into these companies, which I doubt, although most industry people say it will happen, we will do this.  When you partner with them you get to reprice your normal menu for their customers.  A small pizza - $1,000,000,  a large pizza - $2,000,000, a cannoli - $5,000,000, and a salad - $10,000,000.  Nobody can tell you what to charge :-D  Another strategy if that fails for some reason is to go to cash only.  These places come with credit cards but if they come with cash we tell their drivers it will be a 72 hour wait for a pizza :-D :-D :-D :-D  I am not kidding and we will do this. 
« Last Edit: May 11, 2019, 06:05:26 PM by waltertore »
SMILING WITH HOPE PIZZA MISSION STATEMENT
TO CREATE HOPE AND MEANING IN THE LIVES OF PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES
http://www.smilingwithhopepizza.com/

Offline nick57

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 4898
  • Location: Tulsa OK
Re: We are finally rid of Postmates
« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2019, 08:09:41 PM »
 Postmates has come to Tulsa. They are looking for drivers and giving out $800 bonuses. Here is the sign up page. https://bestreferraldriver.com/postmates-sign-up-bonus-Tulsa.html  We have had 749dine in town for about 20 years. They work with a lot of restaurants here and seem to have a good rep. I have only used them once. Being a little over the hill, I don't use delivery, I either dine in or go and pick up our meal myself.  I hope you are off their radar now.

Offline Essen1

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6207
  • Location: SF Bay Area
Re: We are finally rid of Postmates
« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2019, 11:05:17 PM »
I’m not sure if your plan to fight these third-party delivery companies is the right approach, to be honest. Reminds me of Don Quixote fighting windmills. Or an Indian Chief trying to stop the advance of the “Iron Horse”, aka the Railroad, around 1860.

Not trying to tell you how to run your biz, but once the “mom & pop shop” nostalgia of your establishment wears off in Reno, and people realize that it might be a hassle to get a hand on your pies, especially if you rake up more awards and accolades and don’t offer any form of delivery, you might lose some otherwise valuable business.

Instead of fighting these companies, join them. It’ll increase your business and revenue. But not only that,...the individual apps show the customers the exact timeframe of their order, from being prepared to being delivered. I never had to wait more than 30-40 mins, start to finish, for my orders. Food always arrived hot and fresh. Even pizza. Never had a bad pie delivered to me by these guys. Ever.

With that said, I think your concerns are unfounded, especially when it comes to your delivery time estimate of “over on hour”.

Focus on making sure that your pies are still great when they reach their destination. A good box that allows airflow, a great liner, such as “Perfect Crust” and VENTiT, the first breathing pizza box. Even Scott Wiener wrote about that box:

https://blog.scottspizzatours.com/post/81384132602/10-amazing-things-i-saw-at-pizza-expo

Plus, with the increased biz, you might be able to offer a couple more job openings to kids/young adults with disabilities which would be great and further accelerate your already great cause!  :chef:

And you’ll be busy which is always a good thing, right?  ;)

And FWIW, my wife drives mostly for Doordash and Uber Eats and occasionally for Postmates and Caviar. She delivers anything from high-end dinners to fast food burgers. Hilda always makes sure she’s as quick, yet safe, as possible and gets the food to the customer hot, fresh and undamaged. And she has yet to show some mental or financial collapse issues.

Just my $0.02
Mike

“All styles of pizza are valid. I make the best I’m capable of; you should make the best you’re capable of. I don’t want to make somebody else’s pizza.” ~ Chris Bianco

Offline waltertore

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3494
  • Location: Reno, Nevada
  • # 1 RATED PIZZERIA IN USA ON YELP
    • Smiling With Hope Pizza
Re: We are finally rid of Postmates
« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2019, 11:26:34 PM »
I’m not sure if your plan to fight these third-party delivery companies is the right approach, to be honest. Reminds me of Don Quixote fighting windmills. Or an Indian Chief trying to stop the advance of the “Iron Horse”, aka the Railroad, around 1860.

Not trying to tell you how to run your biz, but once the “mom & pop shop” nostalgia of your establishment wears off in Reno, and people realize that it might be a hassle to get a hand on your pies, especially if you rake up more awards and accolades and don’t offer any form of delivery, you might lose some otherwise valuable business.

Instead of fighting these companies, join them. It’ll increase your business and revenue. But not only that,...the individual apps show the customers the exact timeframe of their order, from being prepared to being delivered. I never had to wait more than 30-40 mins, start to finish, for my orders. Food always arrived hot and fresh. Even pizza. Never had a bad pie delivered to me by these guys. Ever.

With that said, I think your concerns are unfounded, especially when it comes to your delivery time estimate of “over on hour”.

Focus on making sure that your pies are still great when they reach their destination. A good box that allows airflow, a great liner, such as “Perfect Crust” and VENTiT, the first breathing pizza box. Even Scott Wiener wrote about that box:

https://blog.scottspizzatours.com/post/81384132602/10-amazing-things-i-saw-at-pizza-expo

Plus, with the increased biz, you might be able to offer a couple more job openings to kids/young adults with disabilities which would be great and further accelerate your already great cause!  :chef:

And you’ll be busy which is always a good thing, right?  ;)

And FWIW, my wife drives mostly for Doordash and Uber Eats and occasionally for Postmates and Caviar. She delivers anything from high-end dinners to fast food burgers. Hilda always makes sure she’s as quick, yet safe, as possible and gets the food to the customer hot, fresh and undamaged. And she has yet to show some mental or financial collapse issues.

Just my $0.02

Thanks for the advice but we will never join with any of these companies.  Believe it or not our business grows each year at a pace we can handle without any of this or advertising.  We don't want to be famous or an empire.  It is too much of a headache to run.  We do it our way and customers flex with our strange hours and menu changes as we grow. Our Yelp ratings are way higher than any of the famous artisan pizzeria kings.  Why?  Because we are onsite all hours and keep complete control over our product from me prepping/making pies to my wife handing it to you at your table or to take home.   
« Last Edit: May 11, 2019, 11:34:16 PM by waltertore »
SMILING WITH HOPE PIZZA MISSION STATEMENT
TO CREATE HOPE AND MEANING IN THE LIVES OF PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES
http://www.smilingwithhopepizza.com/

A D V E R T I S E M E N T