DKM's Thin Crust w/Pictures

[SquirrelFlight]

So, attempt #2 was much better.  I used KAAP instead of KABF, which made a noticable difference in how the dough handled, and moving to the bottom rack improved the bake.  Next time, I think I'll add a parbake, and maybe post some pictures...

[ThatsAmore]

Based on my last comment and Steve's method of letting dough rest, a few weeks ago when I cooked pie, I tested 2 batches of my dough.  Resting 24 hours, one in the refrigerator, the other on the countertop, same ingredients.

I had identical results, taste, oven bounce, texture, etc.  But the room temperature dough rolled out much, much easier.

Cheers!

[jamesstark]

First of all, A HUGE THANK YOU to this entire community for even existing!  Stumbling onto a recipe to recreate the Village Inn Pizza Parlour of my youth has absolutely made my year!

I've made the DKM crust several times now, with pretty great success.  I had been using King Arthur Bread Flour so far, as I wasn't able to pin down a source for High Gluten flour.  But today I found one!   So as soon as I get my hands on an appropriate container, I'll be going to buy the 50lb bag of flour at our local Cash & Carry.  Thank you to rsimon719 for the suggestions on large containers.  I've already ordered a Vittles Vault.

I got the nice bubbles and layers, but had a problem:  My one remaining question is regarding the way my dough browned....or rather didn't.  Rather than turning a nice golden brown, it stayed white and dried out into the consistency of a hard, old, biscuit.  I suspect this is probably due to two different reasons:

1. I didn't know how to properly "grease" my pizza pan.  Unfortunately I only had non-stick pizza pans on hand, so I gave them a quick dousing of cooking spray.  In retrospect, I should probably invest in non-stick pans and grease with olive oil.  Thoughts?

2. I also used Canola Oil instead of Vegetable oil.  Can this make a difference?  The smoke point of Canola Oil is much higher than Vegetable Oil, so I thought that would actually keep more of it in the crust and give it a chance to brown.  I did notice a great deal of vapor/smoke coming off of the crust after the par bake.  I assumed it was just water vapor, but perhaps it was the oil smoking out.  I read one comment that mentioned increasing the fat content of the dough to get the crispy, golden-brown, results...but doesn't this mess-up the consistency of the dough?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

And finally one other BIG question for my personal situation:  My family recently discovered that we all suffer from a strange genetic form of Kidney Disease.  We're all going to make it, but it means we have to cut down our salt intake.  Can the salt in this recipe be reduced at all without harming the results?

Cheers!

[Chicago Bob]

First of all, A HUGE THANK YOU to this entire community for even existing!  Stumbling onto a recipe to recreate the Village Inn Pizza Parlour of my youth has absolutely made my year!

I've made the DKM crust several times now, with pretty great success.  I had been using King Arthur Bread Flour so far, as I wasn't able to pin down a source for High Gluten flour.  But today I found one!   So as soon as I get my hands on an appropriate container, I'll be going to buy the 50lb bag of flour at our local Cash & Carry.  Thank you to rsimon719 for the suggestions on large containers.  I've already ordered a Vittles Vault.

I got the nice bubbles and layers, but had a problem:  My one remaining question is regarding the way my dough browned....or rather didn't.  Rather than turning a nice golden brown, it stayed white and dried out into the consistency of a hard, old, biscuit.  I suspect this is probably due to two different reasons:

1. I didn't know how to properly "grease" my pizza pan.  Unfortunately I only had non-stick pizza pans on hand, so I gave them a quick dousing of cooking spray.  In retrospect, I should probably invest in non-stick pans and grease with olive oil.  Thoughts?

2. I also used Canola Oil instead of Vegetable oil.  Can this make a difference?  The smoke point of Canola Oil is much higher than Vegetable Oil, so I thought that would actually keep more of it in the crust and give it a chance to brown.  I did notice a great deal of vapor/smoke coming off of the crust after the par bake.  I assumed it was just water vapor, but perhaps it was the oil smoking out.  I read one comment that mentioned increasing the fat content of the dough to get the crispy, golden-brown, results...but doesn't this mess-up the consistency of the dough?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

And finally one other BIG question for my personal situation:  My family recently discovered that we all suffer from a strange genetic form of Kidney Disease.  We're all going to make it, but it means we have to cut down our salt intake.  Can the salt in this recipe be reduced at all without harming the results?

Cheers!

post a pic james...i`ll help you with this.
for now, use corn oil and a salt substitute...we don`t want to kill you and your family.

[jamesstark]

Hi Chicago Bob!

Thanks for the reply.  I didn't get any pics of my previous attempts, but I'll be sure to snap some this when I make some this week.

I assume you mean corn oil for in the dough, and not to grease the pan?

Sadly salt substitutes are equally harmful to kidney disease.  I just try to "be good" with all my other meals so that I can indulge in this recipe when I need to.

Cheers!

[Chicago Bob]

Hi Chicago Bob!

Thanks for the reply.  I didn't get any pics of my previous attempts, but I'll be sure to snap some this when I make some this week.

I assume you mean corn oil for in the dough, and not to grease the pan?

Sadly salt substitutes are equally harmful to kidney disease.  I just try to "be good" with all my other meals so that I can indulge in this recipe when I need to.

Cheers!

yes, for the dough....please, no grease in the pan.

[pythonic]

Steve,

What pepperoni did you use in those first images where it bowled up?  Reminds me of the old frozen tony's pizzas.

Nate

[Steve]

Ezzo pepperoni... unfortunately there's only one place to get it online (pennmac.com) and their prices are high. I found another brand in my grocery store called Fiorucci which I sliced myself. It too cups nicely. Look for a pepperoni in a collagen casing.

For more info (specifically reply #11):
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=30749.0

[bigMoose]

Nate my Restaurant Depot carries a Mama Isabella's 38mm cup and char pepperoni that... well... cups and chars. Comes two 5lb bags to a case box and is relatively thick sliced.  My RD sells the bags individually.

[Zapa]

Hi Steve

I am new to this forum and I have been searching for a really good thin and crispy dough recipe on the Internet and I came across your DKM thin & crispy crackery dough recipe as explained in this 'best to date' post with pics and I was keen to know how much flour should be used in dusting the bases when rolling/sheeting. I would also like to know if the parbaked base can be stored and used at a later time and still achieve the same end result. Would it be a good idea to freeze or refrigerate these parbaked bases for use at a later time. How would you thaw it out and what would be the best way to heat it up. How would you get it ready for adding sauce and toppings in the quickest way possible.

Regards

Paul

[Pete-zza]

Paul,

Are your questions with respect to making crusts for home use or for a commercial application?

Many types of crusts can be parbaked for later use and refrigerated (up to a point) or frozen until then, but in general freshly made pizzas will usually be better than pizzas made using parbaked crusts.

Peter

[Zapa]

Thx Pete

It would be for home use. The mrs would prefer to make dough less often and have bases ready in the fridge or freezer for convenience, especially when we have family gatherings etc. We have 4 little kids and time is a scarce resource. My issues are:

1. What is the max. number of days you would recommend holding par baked bases in the fridge or freezer, assuming little effect on quality.
2. What would be the best and quickest way to thaw out the bases. Would the bases become wet and mushy.
3. Would you need to reheat the bases in the oven before loading with sauce and toppings or would you do that when the bases were at room temp.

I can't wait to try the DKm thin crust recipe Steve's way and I will put pics up for sure.

Paul

[Pete-zza]

Paul,

I don't know if this will help but some time ago several of the members, me included, did a lot of experimentation with DKM's cracker crust recipe, at this thread:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=5762.msg48991#msg48991

In my opinion, the best stuff in the above thread starts at Reply 16 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=5762.msg49138#msg49138.

As I mentioned in my last post, there is some sacrifice of quality in using a par-baked crust in lieu of one made from fresh dough. But if you can live with that, you can make par-baked crusts that can be stored at room temperature (more on this below), in the refrigerator, or in the freezer. To prepare the par-baked crusts to be held at room temperature, you want to follow the instructions that Tom Lehmann often gives, such as that at the PMQ Think Tank at http://thinktank.pmq.com/threads/hey-pizzaguy-info-pls.38/#post-141. For refrigeration or freezing purposes, you should be able to stack several parbaked crusts (separating them with paper or something equivalent might be a good idea) and place them in a plastic bag that is then closed shut.

You should keep in mind that crusts that are to be parbaked are usually not fully baked. For example, see Reply 129 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=576.msg10061#msg10061 for some baking tips (and some storage tips as well) but keep in mind that for cracker crusts you may need to par-bake them longer than you would for the softer crust described in Reply 129.

As for defrosting frozen par-baked crusts, I would recommend following the kinds of instructions that commercial producers of frozen par-baked crusts dispense. An example can be found at http://www.rizzutofoods.com/products/parbaked-pizza-crust/. However, keep in mind that your par-baked crusts stored in your freezer will have a much shorter shelf life than those made by commercial producers of par-baked crusts. Their crusts are flash frozen at extremely low temperatures.

Good luck. I look forward to what you discover when you make your par-baked crusts and the pizzas made using them.

Peter

[Pete-zza]

Paul,

After my last post, I found an article by Tom Lehmann, at http://www.pizzatoday.com/departments/in-the-kitchen/dough-doctor-thick-crust-par-fect/. Although the article is for a thick par-baked crust, the principles are the same and you will want to adjust your bake time to achieve the optimum results for a thin, cracker type crust.

Peter

[clarkth]

I finally got a cutter pan for Christmas and pulled up this thread and followed Steve's first posts as closely as possible since his cracker pizzas look so good.  Overall a solid first effort (no pictures though  ) but not as good as the cracker crusts I was getting by using Nick's high oil recipe and pre-baking the crust right on a stone.  The crust lacked crispness and didn't have a lot of separation/bubbles like Steve's pictures.  The edges that went up the side of the pan were crispy and what I expected, but not the bottom.  It tasted OK and my kids ate it all, but I'm trying to get a crisper bottom and some separation using a cutter pan

A couple of questions before I try this recipe again:

• I'm using KASL but should I should use a lower protein flour to get a better cracker/crunch?
• I used IDY instead of ADY, but the same 1.2% as in the recipe.  Should I use more or less IDY?  I got some rise during the 24 hr RT ferment, about 50%, and had a good alcohol smell so I think the yeast was OK
• Going along with the yeast, the water was about 90 degrees, should I use room temperature or colder water with IDY?
• I had a stone in the oven that I put the cutter pan on.  I don't know if this is a good idea or not and it may have prevented some of the crust rise, should I just put the pan right in the oven?
• I used 16oz of flour as the recipe lists, but it rolled out to almost 22" with a thickness of a credit card.  Is this too thin?  Should the recipe make about an 18" rolled out crust as in the pictures?  (My cutter pan is 16")
• I docked the dough very heavily in the pan but only on one side.  This may have prevented some of the separation or smaller bubbles to form on the crust, should I dock heavily or just a quick pass over? Should I dock both sides?
• I sauced/topped the crust right away after the 4 minute pre-bake.  Should I let it cool for about 10 minutes then top and finish cooking?
• After cooling, should I lightly oil the crust?  It looked like some some of the sauce was absorbed into the crust and oiling might help prevent this?

I'll give this a go again next week and experiment with some of these variables.  If anyone has any thoughts or suggestions please post, thanks!