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Author Topic: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!  (Read 114537 times)

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Offline DanAyo

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #420 on: July 18, 2019, 08:30:38 PM »
Nick, have you tried adding garlic powder to the dough? Update -  see in reply #405 where you did use garlic powder. What percentage and how did it affect your dough?

If additives such as garlic powder don’t affect the gluten, I am considering something like the packets of powdered Italian Dressing. But it and others contain a lot of salt. Does anyone have an idea how I would use a salty additive and calculate the additional percentage of salt?

I gave it a try (1%). IMO, it made the dough tighten up dramatically. Very similar to the characteristics of too much salt. The gluten was instantly tough and the outer skin continued to rip and tear. Btw - the garlic powdered was 100% garlic with no salt.

The dough turned out so bad, that I made another batch, just in case.

Failures are always disappointing, but I learn much more from my flops than I do from those that succeed.

I’d be hard pressed to consider another formula and process for Cracker Crumb. Your post has been a super gift to me!

Thanks...
Danny


« Last Edit: July 18, 2019, 08:42:24 PM by DanAyo »
Dan Ayo
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Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #421 on: July 21, 2019, 08:59:17 AM »
  I don't think I used too much garlic powder, maybe 1/2 teaspoon. I may have added some extra water to the mix also. If you knew how much salt was in the seasoning pack you could deduct that from the salt in the dough recipe.

Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #422 on: July 31, 2019, 09:25:22 PM »
 This is my latest recipe and workflow with pics. For my tastes I like it. It may be not what you are looking for, but it does make for a crispy crust. Be sure to check out the other great cracker recipes from the members. You may find just what you are looking for.


I was looking at my first post in this thread and I  stated " So, I think this will be my final recipe for cracker crust pizza, I don' think I can improve it." Boy was I wrong!  I have tried all sorts of dough formulas and cooking techniques over the years. I have had crusts that were like peanut brittle with no chew to more like thin and crispy with lots of chew. This latest version is crackery with a little chew, it reminds of a Ken's pizza but with a thinner crust. A lot of my attempts have been very good, but not quite what I was looking for. This one is not perfect, but I am really pleased with the crunch and chew. I may  not be able to recreate the old school PH cracker crust, but I am close. I will have some fun trying a poolish to see if it improves the flavor since the crust is more or less flavorless. I am also going to try my hand at a quick RT ferment so in an emergency I can make the dough a few hours beforehand when I need to bake it.

 I did a 48 hour CF. The dough is good to use even going out to 72 hours. I use a 14" cutter pan when par baking the crust. A flat pan can be used, a pizza screen or baked directly on a stone. A pizza stone is a must for the cracker like crust. A baking steel could be used, but you might have to lower the temps to keep the bottom from burning. I roll the crust out to 20 inches just in case I have a bad spot or a craggy edge. You may be able to make a smaller skin if you are not using a cutter pan or are directly baking on a stone. Below is the exact formula I have used on my last  3 pies. I did not use the dough calculator, just tried something new from what I have learned in the past attempts. Using the dough calculator I reversed engineered  the formula. It is close enough that you should get the same results. I have included it, so you can make any size skin you are after. One of the major differences between this and my last attempts a while back, is the blending of different flours. I used a 50/50 blend of KAAP and KABF.

Dough formula
373 grams flour  50/50 blend KAAP/KABF
157 grams of water
1/3 teaspoon IDY
   1 teaspoon salt
1/2 teaspoon sugar
   3 tablespoons oil

The procedure:

Place the dry ingredients in a food processor and pulse a couple of times to combine. Add the oil to the water and whisk to breakup  the oil droplets. With the processor running on low slowly add the liquid mixture to the dry ingredients. Blend till everything is combined. Stop the processor and scrape down the sides. Pulse the mixture 5 or 6 more times. Let the mixture sit for a few minutes to help the flour hydrate. Dump the dough mixture onto the counter and squeeze together to form a ball. The mixture may need a spritz of water if it is too dry. Use just enough to get the mixture to hold together. It usually needs only a couple of sprays. This time I formed the dough into a disc instead of a ball to help in rolling out. Place the dough in a oiled plastic baggy. Move to the fridge for a minimum of 24 hours. 48 hours is better, and even 72 hours will work.

Offline DanAyo

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #423 on: August 01, 2019, 09:05:47 PM »
Nick, have you mixed a double batch in a food processor?  Total dough weight around 1140g.

I have been mixing double batches and I think it is too much for the food processor to efficiently handle.

What do you think?

I can’t say thanks enough for such a great cracker dough formula and process.
Dan Ayo
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Life is a journey of exploration and learning. Earthly perfection is unattainable, but never the less consistently sought.

Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #424 on: August 02, 2019, 12:23:55 PM »
 I think it would depend on the capacity of your work bowl. I own Kitchen Aid processor with a 13 cup work bowl. Pretty sure it would handle a double batch.  If yours is smaller like a 6 or 9 cup capacity I think you would be pushing it's limit. Since making a batch is a pretty quick procedure, it would be fairly easy to make another batch. I would not bother to clean the bowl after the first batch and just dump the ingredients in and run till the dough comes together...about 30 seconds or so. Glad you have had good success with the formula. Even though I like the results, I am still going to fiddle around with the formula and see If I can improve it. Maybe I can and maybe not, but it's a learning experience and that's the excitement.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2019, 12:26:47 PM by nick57 »

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Offline DanAyo

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #425 on: August 02, 2019, 01:19:44 PM »
Nick, I have a 12 cup Kitchenaid. But it doesn’t look to me like it is mixing the dry ingredients well enough. Keep in mnd, I dn’t have a lot of food processor experience.

I will try single doughs next time.

It is great to hear that you will continue to try and improve the dough. You can be sure that many of us will take advantage of any improvements you discover. BUT, IMO that won’t be easy to improve upon...
Dan Ayo
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Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #426 on: August 02, 2019, 03:26:52 PM »
  I would think a 12 cup bowl would be large enough, but what do I know? :)  My procedure for mixing is to dump the dry ingredients into the bowl and put on the cover. With the processor running I slowly add the liquids and let it run till the dough takes up the liquid. Then I stop the processor, remove the lid and scrap down the sides with a spatula. I pulse the processor a few times and if need be scrape the sides again and pulse a few more times.

 You got my curiosity up. Next time I make a cracker crust I am going to make a double batch and see what happens. I have a few ideas where I want to go next with the dough. As always I will post results whether they are successful or not.   

Offline DanAyo

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #427 on: August 02, 2019, 03:48:13 PM »
Thanks Nick. My processor has been only 1 speed so slow is not possible. I mix according to your instructions, but when the dry ingredients are pulsed it doesn’t appear to be thoroughly mixing. But I could be wrong about that.
Dan Ayo
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #428 on: August 02, 2019, 06:15:56 PM »
Danny,

Like Nick, when I played around with the cracker style I made only single dough balls in my food processor. So I can't say what I would have gotten had I made enough dough in the processor to make several pizzas. But when I made the single dough balls there were two things that I found to be useful--sifting the flour and using a classic Calvel-like autolyse, both of which measures were taken to better hydrate the dough and minimize gluten formation. It may well have been that my use of these two steps was necessary because my dough formulation called for a hydration of only 36% and oil at only 3.5%. Both of these numbers are quite a bit lower than what Nick has used. You can see how I made my dough using the sifting step and a Calvel-like autolyse at Reply 8 at:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=5762.msg49042#msg49042

I also concluded from my experiments that using a fairly strong flour was a better choice for me than using all-purpose flour. I also discovered that it was possible to make a low hydration, low oil dough by hand, that is, without any machine. In addition, I was trying to find a way for members who had very little in the way of any tools to be able to make a credible cracker style pizza. What I devised is described and shown at Replies 126-128 at:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=5762.msg53174#msg53174

Peter


Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #429 on: August 02, 2019, 06:49:10 PM »
Peter,

 Great post and links.  I have not tried sifting when making a cracker crust, so I will give that a try. After mixing the dough I usually let it rest for about 5 minutes or so. Next time I am going to let the dough rest a little longer per your autolyse method. Thanks for the tips. Nick

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Offline john_k

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #430 on: August 06, 2019, 03:17:40 PM »
I liked this a LOT, thanks.

Next time I think may cut back the oil just a tad.

Offline DanAyo

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #431 on: August 07, 2019, 01:30:03 PM »
I think homage to Nick is in order and only reasonable. The pies keep getting better and better... And each time I can’t imagine how that is possible.

The time spent and your efforts to publish your Cracker Dough journey was not in vain.

I have not tweaked (no need) the crust, but experiments with the toppings are on-going. Some of my favorites are black olives, thin mandoline sliced bell peppers and onions, Roth brand Chevre goats cheese, and a big shout out to Old Bay seasoning (with lemon). I just tried rubbing a toe of raw garlic on the par-baked skin. Will post that results after tasting.

Oh, I also fermented this dough at RT (~72F) for 17 hours, no refrigeration. Will appraise after tasting.

Update: after tasting this pie, I am happy to say this this is the very best pizza I’ve ever eaten, anywhere! It is crunchy, super thin, and the rubbed garlic is coming through. Not sure if the 17 hr warm ferment enhanced the crust or not, but it is the best ever. Next time, more garlic will be added to the skin. Maybe super infused olive oil.


NOTE - the fourth image below shows why I like to par-bake. It eliminates stress, is crispy, and the pie can be loaded by hand (no peel).
« Last Edit: August 07, 2019, 09:12:28 PM by DanAyo »
Dan Ayo
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Offline DanAyo

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #432 on: August 07, 2019, 03:32:25 PM »
Nick, I wanted to report back about the subject of mixing 1 or 2 of your 16” doughs.

I mixed a single dough in my 12 qt food processor and it worked much better for me. For my machine I think 2 doughs are too much for the machine.
Dan Ayo
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Life is a journey of exploration and learning. Earthly perfection is unattainable, but never the less consistently sought.

Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #433 on: August 07, 2019, 08:30:54 PM »
 Dan,

  Thanks for the compliments. It's been a long and mostly fun journey, and it's still ongoing. It's still not what I was looking for when I started this trip. I don't think I will ever get there, but I am very pleased with my latest results. I will try to make a double batch next time, if it works I will freeze a dough ball for later use. When you get time check out cracker recipes that other members have posted, they have come up with some amazing formulas. Keep posting pics, your pies look fantastic!
« Last Edit: August 07, 2019, 08:39:49 PM by nick57 »

Offline spacelooper

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #434 on: August 08, 2019, 03:04:17 PM »
Tried Nick57's recipe from the percentages on reply #286. I mixed dough per "mixing procedure" instructions on his post. The sauce was a basic milled Alta Cucinas with salt, pressed garlic and olive oil. The cheese was a 50/50 mix of Grande Whole milk and Grande Part Skim. I followed Nick's instruction for dough mixing and baking and was very happy with the results. I will definitely be making this one again. Took one to my wife and her co workers and they loved it.

thanks,
Nick

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Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #435 on: August 08, 2019, 07:15:56 PM »
Tried Nick57's recipe from the percentages on reply #286. I mixed dough per "mixing procedure" instructions on his post. The sauce was a basic milled Alta Cucinas with salt, pressed garlic and olive oil. The cheese was a 50/50 mix of Grande Whole milk and Grande Part Skim. I followed Nick's instruction for dough mixing and baking and was very happy with the results. I will definitely be making this one again. Took one to my wife and her co workers and they loved it.

thanks,
Nick

 Great looking pie! Happy the recipe worked out for you.  Still not through tweaking  around with the recipe, but I am happy with the recipe at reply #286. It's pretty crazy how the recipe has evolved over the years. At first I thought I had it down pat, boy was I wrong.  Don't be afraid to do some mods to the recipe if you want. This has been a decade of experiments and I don't think I have crossed the finish line yet.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #436 on: September 14, 2019, 04:26:27 PM »




     Wow!!  You did good here Nick... Great write up on your last 50/50 trial.   :chef:

Luvs old skool PH thin and I'm going to try your recipe.

Thanks dude! 😁
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