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Author Topic: Pizza Canotto with Biga  (Read 43743 times)

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Offline alonglick

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Re: Pizza Canotto with Biga
« Reply #580 on: December 30, 2020, 02:53:10 PM »
Alon, I'd like to know how you make that chili oil - looks great!

Alex,

I do the following:
- 1 liter of oil (not olive oil since its taste is dominant, any other will work).
- Handful of whole coriander seeds.
- 3-4 garlic cloves.
- Few (5-10) whole Cradamom seeds.
- 1 cinamon stick.

Put all together in a pot and bring to low boil, about 110-120c.
Leave it for about 1h (at least) up to 2h.
Take a look on the garlic cloves, if they start to get too brown just take them out, they can get bitter.

In the meantime, take a large bowl and put about 100g of chili flakes and some salt (1-2 tbsp).

After the 1-2h of boiling, increase the heat and bring the oil to high boil, about 170-180c.

Then CAREFULLY pour the oil through a strainer into the bowl of chili and salt. Be careful it bubbles as HELL, make sure the bowl is very large.

While it bubbles you can take a spoon and just for a second to make sure it is well mixed.

Then let it cool until it gets to room temp...

This is based on a combination of Joshua Weissman's and Marion's kitchen recipe (I think Joshua's is better), I removed and added some of the ingredients they put there (removed anise star for example). recently I found also sichuan pepper seeds so I'm going to add them in my next batch.



Enjoy!!
Alon

Offline DoouBall

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Re: Pizza Canotto with Biga
« Reply #581 on: December 30, 2020, 03:14:07 PM »
I love it!
Alex

Outdoor Oven: Blackstone. Indoor Oven: Gaggenau.

Offline Danhem

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Re: Pizza Canotto with Biga
« Reply #582 on: January 20, 2021, 08:33:43 AM »
ďKeys to success are

1)Add enough water to get to 55% hydration right away. If you don't add enough water in upfront, it takes too many small additions and may lead to overmixing.Ē

How do you calculate the 55% hydration? Is this total hydration including the biga hydration or the hydration of the refresher (water to flour ratio)?

Looks like an interesting twist on the biga recipe Iíve been using, which is giving inconsistent results. Iíve been using the formulae by Vito Iacopelli (YouTube).

Sometime the dough is great and others it is weak and flat. The biga is cold fermented for 48 hours, then combined with flour, water, salt. 2 hour bulk ferment at RT, balled and proofed for 6 hours.

When it works the pizza has been great but Iíve had inconsistent results so in search for a new recipe.

Iíve got the biga at RT now so will mix the refresher tomorrow and bulk ferment in the fridge for 20 hours.

Thanks.

Dan.

Offline DoouBall

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Re: Pizza Canotto with Biga
« Reply #583 on: January 20, 2021, 11:46:37 AM »
ďKeys to success are

1)Add enough water to get to 55% hydration right away. If you don't add enough water in upfront, it takes too many small additions and may lead to overmixing.Ē

How do you calculate the 55% hydration? Is this total hydration including the biga hydration or the hydration of the refresher (water to flour ratio)?

Looks like an interesting twist on the biga recipe Iíve been using, which is giving inconsistent results. Iíve been using the formulae by Vito Iacopelli (YouTube).

Sometime the dough is great and others it is weak and flat. The biga is cold fermented for 48 hours, then combined with flour, water, salt. 2 hour bulk ferment at RT, balled and proofed for 6 hours.

When it works the pizza has been great but Iíve had inconsistent results so in search for a new recipe.

Iíve got the biga at RT now so will mix the refresher tomorrow and bulk ferment in the fridge for 20 hours.

Thanks.

Dan.

Since you're starting the mix with all the flour and the biga, you calculate the amount of water like this (flour in refreshment + flour in the biga)*0.55 = water to come to 55% hydration. Take all your water, remove that amount from it into another pitcher, put your biga+flour into the mixer, add that water and start the mix on low speed. Once the pumpkin forms nicely (4-8 minutes) increase to 2nd speed, add the salt and then slowly the rest of the water.

Salt can be added once pumpkin forms or towards the end. Same with oil. Lately, I have been adding oil 1-2 minutes after mixing starts and it works well (in a spiral mixer). In a planetary, I would add oil only after the gluten is formed.

Alex

Outdoor Oven: Blackstone. Indoor Oven: Gaggenau.

Offline Danhem

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Re: Pizza Canotto with Biga
« Reply #584 on: January 20, 2021, 11:40:58 PM »
Hi,

Thanks for the speedy response.

So to clarify:

I am using 1kg flour in total @ 65% hydration.

There is 130g of water and 300g flour in the biga.

For the refresher I have 520g water and 700g flour.

From what I understand, I need to hold back 100g of water to add slowly in stages (Water for 55% hydration = 550g - 130g in biga + 420g).

Apologies for a dumbass question but trying to follow correctly.

Thanks

Dan.

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Offline DoouBall

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Re: Pizza Canotto with Biga
« Reply #585 on: January 21, 2021, 01:46:55 AM »
You got it almost right Dan. No such thing as a dumbass question - we're all just learning from each other.

For your biga, the hydration should be 44% or higher, so if you're using 300g flour, your biga should contain 132g of water or more. I would use the MasterBiga app to help you calculate both the biga and the rest of the formula. You can also keep it simple and use a 50% hydrated biga to make your math very simple. Vincenzo Capuano does that and he's one of the best biga guys out there. If you go with the standard 44% it would look like this:

Biga = 300g flour + 132g water;
Refreshment = Biga + 700g flour + 418g water upfront + 100g water added in small doses + 25g salt + 20g oil towards end of mixing
« Last Edit: January 21, 2021, 04:07:15 PM by DoouBall »
Alex

Outdoor Oven: Blackstone. Indoor Oven: Gaggenau.

Offline Danhem

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Re: Pizza Canotto with Biga
« Reply #586 on: January 21, 2021, 02:44:55 AM »
Thanks so much.... Iíll report back in how big my bubble are :)

Offline Danhem

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Re: Pizza Canotto with Biga
« Reply #587 on: January 23, 2021, 07:09:32 AM »
So we had a successful cook today with this dough. I cooked the pizza on a oven floor registering 750f with a live flame licking over the oven dome.

Amazed at the air formation in the crust, just what Iíve been searching for. Fresh from the oven the crust was light and crunchy, on the pizza cooled however, the crust became a little chewy. I think I could have cooked the pizza a little longer and guess that the extra 30 seconds would have given the crust that extra bite.

All in all this is the best success I have had with a dough since completing the build of my wood oven in June. Very eager to try this again....tomorrow :)
« Last Edit: January 23, 2021, 10:41:13 AM by Pete-zza »

Offline LaGaby

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Re: Pizza Canotto with Biga
« Reply #588 on: February 04, 2021, 09:13:11 AM »
This forum keeps giving and giving! and everyone's pizzas are looking fantastic!  :D


I've had a good read through this morning and stumbled on a question (and forgive me if this has already been asked) but some people choose different RT bulk times before balling and going in the fridge.
Some do 1hr bulk where as some do 4- 5 hrs then ball and into the fridge.

I would usually refresh, bulk for less than 30mins, ball, CT for a further 24hours-ish until 2hrs before cooking.
Am I shortening a vital step here?
Has anyone noticed a difference in comparing RT bulk times?



Offline DoouBall

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Re: Pizza Canotto with Biga
« Reply #589 on: February 04, 2021, 11:03:48 AM »
This forum keeps giving and giving! and everyone's pizzas are looking fantastic!  :D


I've had a good read through this morning and stumbled on a question (and forgive me if this has already been asked) but some people choose different RT bulk times before balling and going in the fridge.
Some do 1hr bulk where as some do 4- 5 hrs then ball and into the fridge.

I would usually refresh, bulk for less than 30mins, ball, CT for a further 24hours-ish until 2hrs before cooking.
Am I shortening a vital step here?
Has anyone noticed a difference in comparing RT bulk times?

I think your process is just fine. For round pizza, bulk is really helpful for direct doughs where it helps build strength and extend the maturation time so that your dough doesn't sit in ball form too long. When you're using a preferment like poolish or biga, many pro pizzaiolos skip bulk because the preferment has already accomplished the goals of bulk fermentation - strength, flavor, maturation. However, if you're making something like bread which is very dependent on strong structure, it's still a good idea to double the bulk before making balls, even when using a biga/poolish.
Alex

Outdoor Oven: Blackstone. Indoor Oven: Gaggenau.

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Offline LaGaby

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Re: Pizza Canotto with Biga
« Reply #590 on: February 05, 2021, 04:34:58 AM »
Ok got it, thanks DouuBall!

Also, just a quick question re flour for biga.
So my supplier mainly deals with the Dallagiovanna range and I can see their 00 Green is
W 340
P/L 0.60
Proteins 13%
Humidity <15.50

Is this fine for biga and if i do i further CF for 24 hrs which flour is best for a refresh?

There's either:
Type 0 soft wheat
W 310
P/L 0.60
Proteins 12.5%
Humidity <15

Or

Type 00 soft wheat
W 310
P/L 0.60
Proteins 12%
Humidity <15.5


Also, I see this is a tipo 0 flour, what pros/cons are there for using tipo 0 instead of 00?
 

Offline DoouBall

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Re: Pizza Canotto with Biga
« Reply #591 on: February 05, 2021, 11:37:40 AM »
Gaby, I don't have any experience with Molino Dallagiovanna but I hear it's a really nice product.

w340 is good for biga. Anything with 13%+ protein is good, but 13.5% and up is ideal so if they have one at 13.5% protein that's even better. If not, that's ok - an Italian pizzaiolo instructor told me that protein %'s are typically underestimated on tech sheets because everyone is so worried about gluten, so you'll be fine. Also, you could even use a Manitoba flour for biga and give it 24 hours to mature.

The other two flours look almost identical - I'm sure they're both fine. w310 should last another 24 hours in the fridge if you use a 20-30% biga. Good luck!

0 flour is a bit less refined than 00 so it has a bit more germ and bran. It's not a lot more, but it's not pure white like a 00 flour. I think 0 flour has a bit more flavor than 00 and is sometimes ground a bit less finely. I prefer 0 flour because sometimes 00, especially Caputo 00, can be a bit too bland tasting from over-processing.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2021, 02:11:36 PM by DoouBall »
Alex

Outdoor Oven: Blackstone. Indoor Oven: Gaggenau.

Offline Pete_da_Bayer

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Re: Pizza Canotto with Biga
« Reply #592 on: February 05, 2021, 02:54:56 PM »
Hi there,

itīs been a while. The weather showed a glimpse of spring yesterday, so i took the chance to fire up the oven.
The dough was with 33% biga, started for one hour @ RT before it went into the fridge for 23hrs. 
The main dough: 1h @ RT 16h fridge 5,5-6hrs @ RT until bake

Dough specs:
Biga
flour: 33% T65 French baguette flour
hydration: 50%
IDY: 0,6% of biga flour

Main dough
Biga +
flour: 67% ,
water: filled up to a total hydration of 67%
salt: 2,5%

Buon Appeitio :chef:


Offline DoouBall

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Re: Pizza Canotto with Biga
« Reply #593 on: February 05, 2021, 10:58:43 PM »
Nice pizzas Pete! Have you ever tried fermenting your biga at 18C? I feel that the flavor is just a bit better.
Alex

Outdoor Oven: Blackstone. Indoor Oven: Gaggenau.

Offline DoouBall

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Re: Pizza Canotto with Biga
« Reply #594 on: February 05, 2021, 11:01:22 PM »
I took a Professional Biga online course with Marco Fuso, one of the biggest experts in biga based pizza. It was a blast and I learned a lot. Out of respect for Marco I won't go into the exact formulas, but we learned a 100% biga dough and a 30% biga dough, all made with a variety of Polselli flours. They are both excellent and I'm still not sure which one I like better. Here are some of the results. It's hard to get the right browning on the first go around, but the flavor was amazing. If anyone is considering taking a class with Marco, I give it my wholehearted endorsement. Here are pics of the 100% biga pizzas:
« Last Edit: February 05, 2021, 11:38:25 PM by DoouBall »
Alex

Outdoor Oven: Blackstone. Indoor Oven: Gaggenau.

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Offline nickyr

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Re: Pizza Canotto with Biga
« Reply #595 on: February 05, 2021, 11:03:03 PM »
I forgot to bulk and then ball, so I balled right away after mixing. The dough was very slack when opening. And I was going for something more like new Brooklyn than pizza canotto, so I did a bigger pie with a smaller rim. The biga was still awesome. I might start bigaing all sorts of pizzas. Detroit style??

Offline DoouBall

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Re: Pizza Canotto with Biga
« Reply #596 on: February 05, 2021, 11:06:45 PM »
I forgot to bulk and then ball, so I balled right away after mixing. The dough was very slack when opening. And I was going for something more like new Brooklyn than pizza canotto, so I did a bigger pie with a smaller rim. The biga was still awesome. I might start bigaing all sorts of pizzas. Detroit style??

Nice results Nicky! During my biga class with Marco Fuso, he showed us how to do a canotto, pizza in teglia, pizza in pala, ciabatta and thin crust roman round pizza with the same dough. You can definitely biga up every style if you want to!
Alex

Outdoor Oven: Blackstone. Indoor Oven: Gaggenau.

Offline DoouBall

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Re: Pizza Canotto with Biga
« Reply #597 on: February 05, 2021, 11:08:05 PM »
And here are the 30% biga pizzas with dough made from Marco Fuso's class. The second one was fully flattened and cooked at 350C for 4 minutes to make a thin and crispy pie.

Last pie is a pumpkin puree with blue cheese (stilton), roasted pecans and honey.

I'm curious what you all think - which looks better, the 100% biga or the 30% biga pizzas?
« Last Edit: February 05, 2021, 11:11:07 PM by DoouBall »
Alex

Outdoor Oven: Blackstone. Indoor Oven: Gaggenau.

Offline scott r

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Re: Pizza Canotto with Biga
« Reply #598 on: February 06, 2021, 12:02:55 AM »
They both look great, but im surprised (as one that loves a 30 Biga dough) that I like the look of the 100 better.  What fun that must be taking a class like that! Bravo!

Offline nickyr

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Re: Pizza Canotto with Biga
« Reply #599 on: February 06, 2021, 12:34:08 AM »
Mmmmmmm

If I had to pick one, I think Iíd pick the 100s also. But I think the two margheritas (100 and 30) might be the two prettiest crusts

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