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Author Topic: My first try at al Taglio :)  (Read 1023 times)

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Offline Michiel

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My first try at al Taglio :)
« on: July 17, 2019, 02:09:38 AM »
Hi,

this is my first try at al Taglio.

I think I used the wrong bake pan?
And I filled him directly with all the toppings.
I didn't got the airness in the pie that I wanted, next time prebake without toppings maybe?

Recipe:
400 grams water
4 gram ADY
500 gram flour
15 grams salt

Fermented at 4°C for 48 hours, then got it 1 hour to warm up.

Offline Michiel

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Re: My first try at al Taglio :)
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2019, 08:32:34 AM »
So I made a new dough.
80% hydration
100% flour -> 75% flour + 25% semola + paprika powder (this is an experiment, someone else tried this already?)
4% yeast
11% salt

In the picture it is just mixed.
Now I'm gonna let it stay on room temperature for 40 minutes, then give it a lil bit of 360 degree hand fold..
Eventually put it in the fridge for 24 hours.

When I bake this one, I'll first parbake it without sauce or any toppings. Is this a good idea to get a more lighty dough then my first try?
Hopefully will the semola give it a lil bit of crunch.

 Someone who tasted my first made al Taglio said the dough was hard to digest, especially the edge. Someone advice on how to prevent this?
« Last Edit: July 17, 2019, 10:55:26 AM by Michiel »

Online Yael

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Re: My first try at al Taglio :)
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2019, 07:48:51 PM »
Hello!

I posted tests about pizza in teglia/pizza pala a couple of times:
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=50472.new#new
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=50378.0
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=54292.new#new
Plus this link that was posted by a member: https://www.cooksillustrated.com/articles/1281-introducing-pizza-al-taglio

You need to have a longer proofing, 1H is not enough, your dough must be at its sweet spot (even more than classic pizza), when it inflated the most and just before it deflates because of the gluten structure which got too weak.
Parbake is highly suggested (with EVOO or tomato sauce) otherwise your toppings will spend too much time in the oven.
Hope this helps!

EDIT: FYI, I will quote Antilife (an Italian member who posts very nice pizzas in teglia, reply 306 https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=40750.msg569816#msg569816) on the fact that there are 2 kinds of pizza in teglia: the teglia classica, which has a lower hydration (like classic pizza) and a proofing on the pan for a couple of hours (like focaccia); and the teglia a la romana, which has a high hydration and which dough is opened on the counter then transferred to the pan for baking (like you did).
Of course you can have a high hydration dough and a proofing, there's no law against it.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2019, 07:55:53 PM by Yael »
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Offline Michiel

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Re: My first try at al Taglio :)
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2019, 11:15:31 PM »
Hello!

I posted tests about pizza in teglia/pizza pala a couple of times:
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=50472.new#new
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=50378.0
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=54292.new#new
Plus this link that was posted by a member: https://www.cooksillustrated.com/articles/1281-introducing-pizza-al-taglio

You need to have a longer proofing, 1H is not enough, your dough must be at its sweet spot (even more than classic pizza), when it inflated the most and just before it deflates because of the gluten structure which got too weak.
Parbake is highly suggested (with EVOO or tomato sauce) otherwise your toppings will spend too much time in the oven.
Hope this helps!

EDIT: FYI, I will quote Antilife (an Italian member who posts very nice pizzas in teglia, reply 306 https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=40750.msg569816#msg569816) on the fact that there are 2 kinds of pizza in teglia: the teglia classica, which has a lower hydration (like classic pizza) and a proofing on the pan for a couple of hours (like focaccia); and the teglia a la romana, which has a high hydration and which dough is opened on the counter then transferred to the pan for baking (like you did).
Of course you can have a high hydration dough and a proofing, there's no law against it.

Hi,

First of all, I want to tell you that you already made me learn so much! So did a few others on this forum.

Please keep active on this forum, there are so many people watching and learning from the stuff you say!  :chef:
In name of these people that just watch, I want to thank you for your dedication to pizzabaking!  :pizza:

Tomorrow I'll be baking my next dough.
I'll make sure the proofing will be something like 3-4 hours? And I will parbake with maybe only the sauce or EVOO on top.

BTW: It is "Teglia alla Romana" ;) I'll try to watch your link during the day! Thanks!

Online Yael

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Re: My first try at al Taglio :)
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2019, 01:36:58 AM »
Hi,

First of all, I want to tell you that you already made me learn so much! So did a few others on this forum.

Please keep active on this forum, there are so many people watching and learning from the stuff you say!  :chef:
In name of these people that just watch, I want to thank you for your dedication to pizzabaking!  :pizza:

Tomorrow I'll be baking my next dough.
I'll make sure the proofing will be something like 3-4 hours? And I will parbake with maybe only the sauce or EVOO on top.

BTW: It is "Teglia alla Romana" ;) I'll try to watch your link during the day! Thanks!

Haha, you're sure it's me ??  :-[ thanks then..!  :-D

Yes, you'll need a longer proofing. I don't know very well the behavior of the ADY as I mostly use IDY, but I think your dosage is ok, just wait till your dough inflated a lot but still has strength (and doesn't collapse when you touch it; if it collapses, you can still save it, but you'll have to be veeeery careful during the handling otherwise all the air inside will escape).
“Learn the rules like a pro so you can break them like an artist” - Pablo Picasso

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Offline Michiel

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Re: My first try at al Taglio :)
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2019, 02:03:13 AM »
Haha, you're sure it's me ??  :-[ thanks then..!  :-D

Yes, you'll need a longer proofing. I don't know very well the behavior of the ADY as I mostly use IDY, but I think your dosage is ok, just wait till your dough inflated a lot but still has strength (and doesn't collapse when you touch it; if it collapses, you can still save it, but you'll have to be veeeery careful during the handling otherwise all the air inside will escape).
Should I let it proof as a ball or let it proof when I stretched it out in the pan?
I guess as a ball?

Edit: grammer

Online Yael

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Re: My first try at al Taglio :)
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2019, 03:24:28 AM »
Should I let it proof as a ball or let it proof when I stretched it out in the pan?
I guess as a ball?

Edit: grammer

Proof as a ball, if you want to make teglia a la romana you open the dough ball, stretch it, and put on the oiled pan right before baking.
“Learn the rules like a pro so you can break them like an artist” - Pablo Picasso

Offline Michiel

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Re: My first try at al Taglio :)
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2019, 05:42:50 AM »
Proof as a ball, if you want to make teglia a la romana you open the dough ball, stretch it, and put on the oiled pan right before baking.

I'm going to try my shot today..

Need to say tho I don't have a al taglio pan. Maybe I should think about buying one..  ???

Online Yael

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Re: My first try at al Taglio :)
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2019, 09:05:23 AM »
Try the pan you have (without paper), but with a lot of olive oil!
“Learn the rules like a pro so you can break them like an artist” - Pablo Picasso

Offline Michiel

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Re: My first try at al Taglio :)
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2019, 10:16:43 AM »
Try the pan you have (without paper), but with a lot of olive oil!

Will do!

I'll edit this post with the pictures I make of my Taglio.
Waiting for the dough to come to RT.. We see a decent grow of the yeast.

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Offline Michiel

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Re: My first try at al Taglio :)
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2019, 11:40:28 PM »
So I tried with your indications and this was the result, let the pictures speak for themselves:

My opinion on the pizza:
Not really my taste, was really floppy.. Don't know if the pizza should be like that?
Didn't eat as airy as I thought.
And too big of a crust.

The crust would be a easy fix.
The other 2 are maybe typical for the pizza.
I don't really know for what I'm aiming for since I've never tasted an al taglio somewhere else.

Online Yael

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Re: My first try at al Taglio :)
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2019, 05:30:34 AM »
Crust seems a little bit dense indeed  :-\

I suggest for your first tests not to use paprika and keep it simple with pizza usual basic ingredients.

It could be a fermentation/yeast problem, a dough handling/shaping problem, a cold dough problem, an oven T° problem, or all of them...

How long was the RT fermentation after CF?
What's the baking temp?
“Learn the rules like a pro so you can break them like an artist” - Pablo Picasso

Offline Michiel

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Re: My first try at al Taglio :)
« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2019, 07:15:58 AM »
Crust seems a little bit dense indeed  :-\

I suggest for your first tests not to use paprika and keep it simple with pizza usual basic ingredients.

It could be a fermentation/yeast problem, a dough handling/shaping problem, a cold dough problem, an oven T° problem, or all of them...

How long was the RT fermentation after CF?
What's the baking temp?

Room temperature would be something like 22-24°C.
Maybe I should transfer the dough next time on the counter because the bowl is really cold and maybe it doesnt let the dough proof enough?

Baking temperature 230°C.
Could go as high as 290°C

Offline john_k

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Re: My first try at al Taglio :)
« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2019, 08:26:05 AM »
I enjoy making this style, and what works for me is hand kneading (after combining the ingredients into a rough shaggy mix, with delayed incorporation of salt and oil), maybe 4 stretch and folds separated by 20 minutes each, then "balling" the dough (really just folding it and sealing the seam), transferring it to an oiled container put into the fridge for 24 hours, maybe an extra fold in that time.

Then bring the container with dough to room temp (a couple few hours), then being especially careful with the handling:
hold container upside down so the dough releases by gravity (vs digging it out of the container), letting it fall onto some bench flour, sprinkle some flour on top if it is sticky, spreading and pressing the dough with the pads of the fingers, then gently pulling it to size and transferring to a pan.

I have not needed oil in the pan, but if the dough is at all sticky then oil or parchment paper will be necessary. Don't worry yet about getting a fancy steel pan.

Simplifying the dough recipe to the basics (flour water salt yeast oil) is also as good idea. I find this style is about fermentation time and dough handling and proper oven heat.

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Re: My first try at al Taglio :)
« Reply #14 on: July 22, 2019, 09:32:08 AM »
Room temperature would be something like 22-24°C.
Maybe I should transfer the dough next time on the counter because the bowl is really cold and maybe it doesnt let the dough proof enough?

Baking temperature 230°C.
Could go as high as 290°C

How long did you leave the dough at RT after the CF? If your dough was cold, that may be a big part of your problem.

A standard heat (you can try it as a basis) for pizza in teglia is top 250~260°C and bottom ~300°C. We have the thickness of our pan so we need more heat from the bottom. If you have a home oven, you can try 290°C as you said it was the maximum, then put the pan near the bottom (if there some heat coming from it).

You can follow the instructions of John, I would just insist on oiling the baking pan as this is a step which gives a lot of taste to the pizza in teglia  :P
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Offline Michiel

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Re: My first try at al Taglio :)
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2019, 01:50:30 AM »
Hi guys, thanks for the reactions!

I'm going to try to react to all your reactions!

- I left the dough for about 3 hours after at RT, next time will try to last it longer!
- Will try next time on 290° and I'll post a picture of the oven modes that I can choose! I have a pizza stone, would that help?
- Will keep oiling the pan a lot! :)
- I always hand knead atm but will not add any paprika powder haha :)

Online Yael

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Re: My first try at al Taglio :)
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2019, 03:23:56 AM »
Hi guys, thanks for the reactions!

I'm going to try to react to all your reactions!

- I left the dough for about 3 hours after at RT, next time will try to last it longer!
- Will try next time on 290° and I'll post a picture of the oven modes that I can choose! I have a pizza stone, would that help?
- Will keep oiling the pan a lot! :)
- I always hand knead atm but will not add any paprika powder haha :)

Yes you can try to use the pizza stone if you can directly put the baking pan on it. According to what I read on the forum, it needs to be heated 45 min to 1H before baking. This will give you a better heat on the bottom, needed for pizza in teglia!
“Learn the rules like a pro so you can break them like an artist” - Pablo Picasso

Offline john_k

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Re: My first try at al Taglio :)
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2019, 07:02:58 AM »
Quote
I would just insist on oiling the baking pan as this is a step which gives a lot of taste to the pizza in teglia

I had gathered from the various Italian videos that no-oil was more pure or "right". I will try it with oil next time.

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Re: My first try at al Taglio :)
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2019, 07:49:54 AM »
I had gathered from the various Italian videos that no-oil was more pure or "right". I will try it with oil next time.

Oh ok, it's the contrary for me, all the people I know making pizza in teglia taught me to add EVO  :-D
Maybe it depends on the result you want, I don't know...
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