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Author Topic: Gemignani Master Dough w/o Starter  (Read 2524 times)

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Offline Michael_King

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Re: Gemignani Master Dough w/o Starter
« Reply #20 on: October 16, 2019, 10:23:13 AM »
Two more recent efforts, getting there...still not as big of air pockets in the crust as I would like to see...not sure what the hold up is


Offline chrisgraff

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Re: Gemignani Master Dough w/o Starter
« Reply #21 on: October 16, 2019, 08:53:48 PM »
Those look GOOD!

Offline Michael_King

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Re: Gemignani Master Dough w/o Starter
« Reply #22 on: November 19, 2019, 08:05:18 AM »
Another tasty one, but not much air pocketing in outer rim. Made poolish again, 24 hour CF after balling and scaling...was careful with outer rim when stretching. Cooked at 550 convection for 7 minutes on pre-heated stone.

Anyone have any thoughts?




Offline scott r

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Re: Gemignani Master Dough w/o Starter
« Reply #23 on: November 19, 2019, 10:43:48 AM »
hi Michael, I think these pizzas look wonderful!  After seeing some of your questions in the thread I have some ideas for things to try that might improve your pizza. 

1) if you dont mix your dough enough it cant trap the air bubbles as well as it could and you won't get enough rise out of the dough.... but if you over mix your dough it can be hard for the yeast to raise the air bubbles.   Home pizza makers tend to mix their dough less than what I see in pizzerias so you might want to try a little more mixing and see if you can trap some of that gas better.  The only way to know if you are mixing properly is to experiment with more and less.   Be very careful if you are using a mechanical mixer not to let the dough hit 80 degrees or more, as some of them can really heat up your dough fast.   Using cold water will help you to regulate this. 

2) a poolish can actually do damage to the dough in terms of texture if not timed perfectly.   Try a batch without the poolish. This probably means you will need a longer fermentation than what you are currently doing.

3) Im not sure if the Gemignani recipe calls for one, (can you post it?) but a bulk fermentation can do wonders for helping you to get large air pockets (voids).   Since you are using commercial yeast your going to want to see a decent amount of rise in your first bulk fermentation. With a poolish you might not want to go quite as far as a double, but without a poolish (this is called a direct dough) its fine to let your dough double in size before you make balls. 

4) Higher heat can lead to larger voids.  Your already at 550 so your oven is maxed out, but your top to bottom heat balance could be off.  In my home oven I prefer not to use convection because it cooks the top of the pizza more than the bottom.   Its possible that what you really need is more bottom heat for more oven spring.   Try this... preheat your stone for a REALLY LONG time.   Im talking an hour at least but preferably an hour and a half...especially if its a thick stone.   Make sure convection is turned off when you go to launch your pie.  Higher heat = airier dough, but less crisp, so beware that there is a tradeoff here if you prefer a really crispy pizza.

5) Wetter dough means larger voids, especially if mixing is longer to strengthen the gluten structure.   After trying more mixing with your current recipe you can try a lot more mixing and wetter dough  (again not sure about your recipe so not sure where you are)

Good luck Michael and keep experimenting and experimenting, keep notes on changes and you will be rewarded!


« Last Edit: November 20, 2019, 11:31:51 AM by scott r »

Offline JAG

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Re: Gemignani Master Dough w/o Starter
« Reply #24 on: November 19, 2019, 04:07:15 PM »
Hi MK,

I'm no NY pro but have done my fair share. It looks like others have given some great advice but maybe think more dough at the rim. The pics of your pre bake dough the rim looks to have a rather thin profile, try bumping up the thickness of the rim during your stretch. My thinking is thet the thin rim does not allow very much gluten structure in that area reducing bubble size. I could be totally off my rocker, and this could just give you a thicker bread-like dense rim but it gives you another reason to make and eat pizza.

jg   

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Offline OHpizzaguy

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Re: Gemignani Master Dough w/o Starter
« Reply #25 on: November 19, 2019, 10:40:13 PM »
Another tasty one, but not much air pocketing in outer rim. Made poolish again, 24 hour CF after balling and scaling...was careful with outer rim when stretching. Cooked at 550 convection for 7 minutes on pre-heated stone.

Anyone have any thoughts?
Michael, your pies look similar to what a lot of mine used to as I was working my way through the right overall combo of dough ball weight to size of pizza that I felt gave me the finished pie I was working towards.  Currently Im making a dough batch that yields roughly 34- 36 oz which Ive been splitting into 2 balls then making 16 pies on screens then finish on stone. That extra weight allows me to press out a nice rim that gets some decent rise.  Previously Id been using smaller dough balls & ended up with more flattened crusts. Hope this helps! Mangia
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Offline Michael_King

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Re: Gemignani Master Dough w/o Starter
« Reply #26 on: November 22, 2019, 08:09:05 AM »
Best one yet by far...topped with smoked/braised chuck roast and fresh mozz...finished with Reggiano and garlic oil on the crust


Offline chrisgraff

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Re: Gemignani Master Dough w/o Starter
« Reply #27 on: November 22, 2019, 11:00:05 AM »
In my home oven I prefer not to use convection because it cooks the top of the pizza more than the bottom.

This. Convection is not the way to go... burns the cheese, etc.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Gemignani Master Dough w/o Starter
« Reply #28 on: November 22, 2019, 01:50:39 PM »
Best one yet by far...topped with smoked/braised chuck roast and fresh mozz...finished with Reggiano and garlic oil on the crust
that pizza looks great Michael... Keep up the good work!!  :drool:
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Offline Michael_King

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Re: Gemignani Master Dough w/o Starter
« Reply #29 on: December 22, 2019, 11:51:52 AM »
Backed off the convection and just went regular 550 for 7 minutes...moved stone to bottom rack of oven, close to heat source...undercarriage was perfectly charred and tops didn't brown as much in the past but still were crispy and good...definite improvements with each run

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Offline Michael_King

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Re: Gemignani Master Dough w/o Starter
« Reply #30 on: January 13, 2020, 01:47:40 PM »
Combined two different recipes/techniques on this past run.

Recipe was Lagsdin 72-Hour Dough (half batch) combined with Varasano's autolyse/wet knead technique in KA mixer. Baked at 550, no convection, stone on bottom rack.

Water, yeast and 75% of flour into mixer, mix until combined, cover and let sit for 20 (I actually bloomed the yeast in a little warm water and used cold for the rest of the required volume, but the recipe does not call for blooming)...add salt and mix on low for 5 minutes...after 5 minutes, start adding flour gradually over next 3 minutes and mix until pulls away from sides of bowl...move to oiled bowl, cover with plastic wrap, 24-hour RT ferment...scale (310g) and ball, into oiled 5 cup Glad container, into fridge, 48-hour CT ferment...let come up to temp on the counter for about 90min...stretched out a couple 14" pies...dough was super easy to work with, had great flavor, great air in the crust...very pleased with the results.


Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Gemignani Master Dough w/o Starter
« Reply #31 on: January 14, 2020, 12:45:24 AM »


   Those pizzas look very tasty.... Excellent bake on both of them!   :drool:

Well done Michael.   :chef:
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