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Author Topic: Cornicione expansion issues  (Read 399 times)

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Offline mattdiskin

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Cornicione expansion issues
« on: August 06, 2019, 08:34:35 PM »
The past two times I have made pizza, I have made three pies.  One pie has been perfect.  The other two have been less than perfect.  The outer crust is not expanding as much as I would like it to on the two less-than-perfect pies. 

On the perfect pie, the cornicione has expanded very nicely, with irregular, sometimes large air bubbles.  I notice that the surface of the cornicione appears dry -- you can still see the flour from shaping it. 

On the other two pies, the cornicione has not expanded very much, and has uniform more dense air bubbles.  The surface appears almost greasy.

My current best hypothesis is that this is related to the toppings on the pizza.  The perfect pies had less greasy cheeses maybe?  It is true that the perfect pies had very different toppings (e.g., goat cheese and balsamic reduction).  The less-than-perfect pies had a traditional NY style cheese blend of mozzarella and provolone and red sauce.

Is it possible that the grease from the cheese is somehow limiting the expansion of the cornicione?  I am nearly certain that all the other factors were uniform, but can't absolutely rule out that slight nuances in my shaping technique or fermentation time affected the results.

My dough is 64% hydration, and they were made with natural/sourdough yeast.  I bake at ~480 degrees.  The dough fermented for ~24 hours at cooler temperatures but was ~ room temperature when I shaped it.  I believe it is close to a NY style, with some olive oil, salt, sugar, and malt powder.

The picture shows the "perfect" pie in the middle, surrounded by the two less than perfect pies on either side.  You can tell the difference in dryness vs greasiness on the outer crust.

I appreciate the help!

Thanks,

Matt

Offline Yael

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Re: Cornicione expansion issues
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2019, 03:58:03 AM »
My first guess would be that the oven T° cooled down for the less-than-perfect pies. Did you notice a longer baking time? That would explain the lower spring oven. Grease should not be a problem, in the contrary it should be better as it would prevent the rim to dry resulting in a better spring oven, no?  :-\
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Offline mattdiskin

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Re: Cornicione expansion issues
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2019, 08:05:19 PM »
Thanks Yael!

Good advice.  Yes, you are correct it could be related to oven temp and oven spring.  I did not clock how long it took the pies to bake.

Lots of confounding factors.  Interestingly, on each night, the 2nd of three pies turned out great, and the 1st and 3rd turned out less than perfect.  Definitely could be due to oven temperature.  But could also be due to the toppings, which were different on the 2nd pie compared to the 1st and 3rd.  I'll be experimenting more soon.

Offline Yael

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Re: Cornicione expansion issues
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2019, 05:13:49 AM »
It would make more sense if the 1st was good and the 2 others not...  ???

Anyway, this can mainly be a problem of oven temp and fermentation. Check these 2 factors, but keep an eye on the toppings as you think...
“Learn the rules like a pro so you can break them like an artist” - Pablo Picasso

Offline mattdiskin

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Re: Cornicione expansion issues
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2019, 08:00:43 PM »
It appears my issues with cornicione expansion were definitely related to fermentation time and/or oven temperature.  Not the toppings.  Thanks Yael!   My approach today was not very scientific...I made changes to many different variables.  But, I got the crust that I enjoy!  The big difference was more preferment relative to the amount of time that I allowed the dough to ferment.  I used Craig's chart.  ~30% preferment for ~ 6 hour rise.  The dough had noticeably risen more than previously.

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Offline Yael

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Re: Cornicione expansion issues
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2019, 03:08:06 AM »
Glad I could help! Keep us updated!
“Learn the rules like a pro so you can break them like an artist” - Pablo Picasso

Offline Buck47

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Re: Cornicione expansion issues
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2019, 09:40:57 AM »
Here is a link to a series of test I ran this Spring focused on Cornicione expansion.
under the thread name: Horse Barn - Pizza / Stromboli

It may be of help to you
 
Time, temp, topping loading, and exact bakers % are all detailed.

A read through the whole thread will give you all the slight changes and variations I made to arrive at what for me is a pizza that fits my needs in my location.
 
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=56409.msg573414#msg573414

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=56409.msg573424#msg573424

Regards: john
« Last Edit: August 12, 2019, 09:58:34 AM by Buck47 »
My family name can be traced back to the very earliest days of the "Federal Witness Protection Program."

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