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Author Topic: Autolyse  (Read 1304 times)

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Offline JanCZ

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Autolyse
« on: August 19, 2019, 12:21:37 PM »
Hi everyone,

I used autolyse to my recept and something goes wrong. My first attempt was really good, dough was really quick baked soft cornicione open, but I don't know what I'm doing wrong. In first recipe I used little softer water. My recipe is 50% caputo pizzeria (In total amount 5% rimacinata -don't use in first attempt) with 62% water (a little harder) mixing for 3mins -> 30min autolyse (covered bowl), than goes in small rest of water (max 85F) with 0,5% ADY --> 50% flour mix for minute and add 20% poolish, kneading in spiral mixer for 3 mins than salt 2% and maybe 10 min resting on bench room temperature 75F than making balls and cross stacking for one hour in fridge. Total weight of dough was 20 pounds. Than reball dough giving them room temperature and bake on 800F. Dough bubbly over place and crust from bottom is crisp but destroyed from top is too chewy and cornicione is not rising and is under. Maybe using poolish to autolysed dough is wrong, maybe is wrong a few things. Thanks for answers!

Offline JanCZ

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Re: Autolyse
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2019, 12:43:31 PM »
First attempt


Offline JanCZ

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Re: Autolyse
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2019, 12:48:14 PM »
dough not rising was really down is it in small box and was like gum

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Autolyse
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2019, 03:22:43 PM »
Three questions which I have are:
1) What was the finished dough temperature?
2) How did you make the poolish? Possibly 20% is too much.
3) What was the total dough fermentation time between mixing and use of the dough?
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline JanCZ

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Re: Autolyse
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2019, 04:42:04 PM »
Thanks for reply Mr. Lehmann

1) In first attemp I absolutely don't know but I think was over 75F I don't control room temperature (moore than 75F)  - I just try it mix water and flour rest for 20-30 mins don't cover than add water with ADY rest of flour and poolish in one step. In second attemp I control room temperature - 75F and dough was too 75F I control everything but was wrong
2)my poolish is same but I can say with different results somethimes (in many times small bubbles don't rising, and in few times double rises and with large bubbles)  Cold tap water with same flour of dough and ADY 500g flour 500g cold tap water and 0,06 oz (when I using 176oz of flour) room temperature 73-75F for 18hours
3)24hours in refrigerator (first time without cross stacking) but In first time after 24h I don't saw typical web from bottom side, but when I stretch dough it was there many bubbles

Sincerely

Jan

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Offline JanCZ

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Re: Autolyse
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2019, 05:49:24 PM »
In second attempt (which was wrong) I think poolish was too long in refrigerator (1-1,5hour) and in second I add rest water with ady to autolyse and mix for one minute than add rest flour mix for 1 -2 minute when comes together and than add poolish from refrigerator - > than 3 minute kneading than salt 9minute of kneading and dough was together In first attempt was dough sticky and after ading salt "it colapsed". (time of kneading 3-4minute)

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Autolyse
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2019, 12:19:54 AM »
Are you pre-activating/hydrating the ADY prior to addition or just adding it dry?
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline JanCZ

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Re: Autolyse
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2019, 02:17:13 AM »
Yes every time I active it. For poolish in cold tap water and to final dough in max 85F water. When I mix it water i bubbling.

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Autolyse
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2019, 12:47:33 PM »
ADY should be activated in 100 to 105F water to prevent glutathion from leaching out.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline JanCZ

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Re: Autolyse
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2019, 04:20:49 PM »
Thank you for answer. But when I add 105F water ADY to dough, it maybe change the final temperature. Can you explain differences ?

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Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Autolyse
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2019, 12:10:13 PM »
Yes, you only activate the ADY in approximately five times its weight of water, never all of the dough water as you are indicating. Once the ADY has been hydrated and activated it can safely be added directly to ice water if necessary.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline pizzainthe6ix

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Re: Autolyse
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2019, 12:20:18 PM »
Thank you for answer. But when I add 105F water ADY to dough, it maybe change the final temperature. Can you explain differences ?
Just use a small amount of 105F water for the yeast and then ice water for the remainder of the water to bring the total water temp/final dough temp down to where you want it

Offline JanCZ

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Re: Autolyse
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2019, 02:47:07 PM »
But we are talking about autolyse. When I have only 5-10% water for ADY. Can autolysed flour making sugars which eat yeast? Two days of cold fermentation and was dough ok. But I must at first reball dough, only when is reballed I make beautifull pies. It's correct ?

Offline pizzainthe6ix

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Re: Autolyse
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2019, 04:07:08 PM »
But we are talking about autolyse. When I have only 5-10% water for ADY. Can autolysed flour making sugars which eat yeast? Two days of cold fermentation and was dough ok. But I must at first reball dough, only when is reballed I make beautifull pies. It's correct ?
Tom or others can correct me if I am wrong.

You do not need to add the yeast to the water during the autolyse period.  During this period you can add the 68F-75F water (depending on friction).  Reserve some of the water for the yeast mix @ 105F + some additional ice-cold water during the final mix to maintain the desired dough temperature Tom mentioned.

Offline JanCZ

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Re: Autolyse
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2019, 04:21:12 PM »
I don't do it. My plan is up. I add reserve water with ADY to autolysed flour with remaining flour and poolish when it's cohesive add 2% salt. But ok that seems to be good idea. Thank you! I had new thing water with ady must stay 5min than add with water to dough. Correct?
« Last Edit: August 21, 2019, 04:25:01 PM by JanCZ »

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Offline JanCZ

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Re: Autolyse
« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2019, 04:23:13 PM »
You mean add 75F water to autolysed the flour ? I add cold tap water and at the end have dough 75F.

Offline JanCZ

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Re: Autolyse
« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2019, 07:13:20 AM »
And what you think about change ady and make it with 5stagioni lievito di birra (no hydratation, just add after autolyse)

Offline pizzainthe6ix

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Re: Autolyse
« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2019, 10:11:40 AM »
Sorry, I was a bit confused with your messages.

When doing the autolyse, the water you will mix in should be around 68-70F and target a final autolyse temp of 76F.

When mixing the final dough after aytolyse, you need to activate the ADY in 105F.  Because this is too warm you will need to bring the final dough temperature down to about 76F.  You can use a small amount of ICE COLD water to mix in after the ADY/WATER mix goes in that will bring the temperature down (you will have to experiment with how much...as an experiment, mix 105F water with 45F water and see what temperature gives you around 68F so you know what to mix).  Make sense?

Offline JanCZ

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Re: Autolyse
« Reply #18 on: August 25, 2019, 12:05:50 PM »
Yes! Now I understanding. Thank you! And you know about 5stagioni lievito di birra (LDB)? I think that would be perfect fit for this technique. Do you have skills with LDB? Now I trying autolysed dough (same recipe) with fresh yeast, but final temperature of dough was 68F. Balls are high (with ady are so flat, I must reball them for better cornicione). What do you think about LDB (I think they are better because you don't have to activate them and amount of yeast is 50% of fresh yeast - less yeast better taste - I think, not sure about that). Thank you for answers, have a nice day.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Autolyse
« Reply #19 on: August 25, 2019, 02:17:50 PM »
Quote
Yes! Now I understanding. Thank you! And you know about 5stagioni lievito di birra (LDB)? I think that would be perfect fit for this technique. Do you have skills with LDB?

5stagioni lievito di birra = IDY. Nothing special about it except the name.
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