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Author Topic: 80% HD question  (Read 292 times)

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Offline 2ndtimearound

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80% HD question
« on: November 25, 2019, 10:47:56 AM »
I tried TXcraigs  SD Detroit dough formula.

I used
100% KAAP, that's all I had on hand
80% water
2% seasalt
3% OO
7% Starter.

My workflow was Water, salt, starter, oil and flour. I mixed in my spiral until combined. Let rest 30 mins, and mixed for another 15 mins.
The dough never formed a ball. What came out of the mixer looked like very thick pancake batter. I bulked it at 68 degrees for 18 hours. It almost doubled in size. I poured it into my oiled black steel Sicilian pan and let it rise for about 6 more hours at 68 degrees.

I dressed it and  baked it at 550 for about 18-20 mins not knowing what the expect. I should have taken pictures but I was so disappointed I didn't want anybody to see the failure. the crust was an oil soaked mess.

My question is did I over mix or under mix? What does 80% Hd dough supposed to look like when properly mixed? I'm guessing its not supposed to be pancake batter.


Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: 80% HD question
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2019, 11:15:02 AM »
I have personally never made a Detroit style pizza with more than 68% absorption, more typically I will use something closed to 65% depending upon the absorption characteristics of the flour I'm using at the time. I'm not familiar with Craig's Detroit dough formula but I see your notation regarding the flour. How does the KAAP flour differ from what Craig's formula calls for using? Flour is usually not one of those "one size fits all" things so using a different flour can really upset the apple cart. I don't know if that the case here or not.
Also, did you take into account the water content in the starter when calculating the dough absorption, if not that would have added about another 7% water.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline 2ndtimearound

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Re: 80% HD question
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2019, 11:29:52 AM »
Tom, Craig's formula uses KABF.
I did account for the water in my started. I used the preferment dough calculator. Is 80% hd supposed to look like thick pancake batter?


Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: 80% HD question
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2019, 12:24:24 PM »
At anything above 70% I always use an autolyse (1-hour) and due to the very fluid nature of the dough the mixing time will be relatively long to get any gluten development in the mixer. With all of this being said, you should really be posting to Craig as he is the one most familiar with his dough formula and procedure.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline 2ndtimearound

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Re: 80% HD question
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2019, 01:05:47 PM »
Thank you

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Offline amolapizza

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Re: 80% HD question
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2019, 02:57:57 PM »
From my limited experience..

Don't add the oil in the beginning, add it at the end as it makes it more difficult for the flour to absorb the water.

I use a technique I've seen referred to as double hydration.  Mix a 60-65% hydration dough to well developed gluten, then slowly add the additional water.  It's kind of like making a mayonnaise, add the water slowly in portions, and make sure that it got integrated, and that you didn't lose gluten development before you add more.  Using cold water is helpful here.  Make sure that the dough doesn't get too warm.

If you didn't achieve enough gluten and it's still too sticky, then a couple of stretch & fold and forming a "boule" (ball) developing its skin will help.

Of course using a high strength flour will help a lot with this.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2019, 03:07:20 PM by amolapizza »
Jack,

Effeuno P134H (1700W upper element), EGO 500C Thermostat (upper), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Sacorosso, Mutti Pelati Bio.

Offline 2ndtimearound

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Re: 80% HD question
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2019, 04:03:57 PM »
From my limited experience..

Don't add the oil in the beginning, add it at the end as it makes it more difficult for the flour to absorb the water.

I use a technique I've seen referred to as double hydration.  Mix a 60-65% hydration dough to well developed gluten, then slowly add the additional water.  It's kind of like making a mayonnaise, add the water slowly in portions, and make sure that it got integrated, and that you didn't lose gluten development before you add more.  Using cold water is helpful here.  Make sure that the dough doesn't get too warm.

If you didn't achieve enough gluten and it's still too sticky, then a couple of stretch & fold and forming a "boule" (ball) developing its skin will help.

Of course using a high strength flour will help a lot with this.

thank you

Offline Qapla

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Re: 80% HD question
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2019, 05:15:28 PM »
G O T

Speaking of dough looking like pancake batter, the other day I made yeast dough Belgian Waffles. The recipe calls for melted butter and eggs and a single rise.

I added the butter when the recipe told me and had the dough rising when I realized I had forgotten the eggs  ::)

I stirred the eggs into the already risen dough and had to let it take a second rise - it came out great  :chef: :D :chef:

OK B O T

I have never made a pizza dough that had 80% hydration - but I have had some become a sticky mass that refused to ball ... but it seemed the yeast may have been dead since it never rose.

Offline Brent-r

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Re: 80% HD question
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2019, 09:33:40 PM »
some of the pizza recipes offered by Ken Forkish in his book  Flour Water Salt Yeast have very high hydration  70-75%.  The first time I tried them I was sure it was going to be porridge.  But he offers a technique of folding and resting that results in a great dough.   He has several good videos on his web site Ken's Artisan Bakery or just search his name on Youtube.  As you go through 3 or 4 of his folding procedures, the gluten forms up and the dough becomes manageable.
His doughs are so wet that the only way to work with them is with occasional dipping your hand into water.  It seems counter-intuitive but it works.
Some of his bread recipes are for 80%
Brent

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