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Author Topic: Starting to work on a Restaurant w/ neapolitan pizza  (Read 811 times)

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Offline MicheleR

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Starting to work on a Restaurant w/ neapolitan pizza
« on: December 05, 2019, 09:58:12 PM »
Hi guys,
after 5 years of chatting here I am hopefully starting to work on opening a restaurant.
I am looking for anyone who can help with tips, and ideas when opening a place..
Also, would like to understand:
-What is the best Commercial oven for neapolitan pizza?
-Do you recommend wood or gas?
-What is a good mixer?
-What flour should I use? I have been using caputo pizzeria, but keep hearing about 5 Stagioni or Dalla Giovanna

Any other tips, ideas, or past/present experience would be amazing also

TIA
Michele

Offline Icelandr

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Re: Starting to work on a Restaurant w/ neapolitan pizza
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2019, 10:48:43 PM »
I wish you good luck, an incredible undertaking, requiring guts and determination, I too, have been learning here for 5 years. I hope for your success the questions are for adding information to your plans, not developing plans, and that your new business is fun and successful!
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Offline Elkaybay

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Re: Starting to work on a Restaurant w/ neapolitan pizza
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2019, 12:34:19 AM »
2.5 years ago I opened my Neapolitan pizzeria in Hanoi, Vietnam.
Don't hesitate to contact me in private, i'll be happy to answer your questions.

Offline Elkaybay

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Re: Starting to work on a Restaurant w/ neapolitan pizza
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2019, 04:12:18 AM »
My favorite oven for baking Neapolitan pizza is made by the Gianni Acunto family in Naples. I believe that there's a US importer called Forza forni.

You could also go to the pizzamaking forum dedicated to building ovens: https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=26441.0
Building your own oven with local materials isn't that difficult, but the floor of the oven (on which the pizzas are baked) has to be made from Neapolitan biscotto (e.g. biscotto Saputo), to ensure that the thermal conductivity is low enough to not burn your pizzas at high temperature.

I only use wood, and will continue to do so.
The downsides are that the baking can be a bit less consistent, your staff needs to be better trained, and wood can be a bit messy.
On the other hand, customers will appreciate that your oven is fired with wood only, and it'll also allow you to maybe one day get the AVPN certification (if you use gas, you can only get the AVPN gas certification).
Also, wood is pretty good for the environment since over its whole life cycle it is CO2 neutral (assuming that your wood comes from sustainable forests), but burning wood emits some fine particles. Gas isn't CO2 neutral but emits less fine particles.

You can make excellent dough using a spiral mixer, but the speed should be low (1 rotation per second or less is great). Fork mixers are slightly better, but usually quite expensive. Your dough mixing process/timing is what's most important.

My favorite flours are Caputo Red & San Felice. I cannot find 5 stagioni 'napoletana' here in South East Asia so I cannot comment on it.

Offline BackyardPizzaiolo

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Re: Starting to work on a Restaurant w/ neapolitan pizza
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2019, 03:16:19 PM »
I would be concerned with the general lack of interest in the USA for Neapolitan pizza (in a commercial setting). Americans want BIG, STUFFY pizzas, hard as a board and with tons of cheese and pepperoni on it. I don't know where you are in NY, but unless you are in some rich/trendy area with a taste of European fanciness, I would be concerned with lack of interest with what is considered a niche and expensive pizza.

There is another forum member called "Pizza Napoletana" (real name Omid), who used to write and write about the history and art of Neapolitan pizza on this forum. He spent considerable time deciphering every aspect of it. I'm sure he was a walking encyclopedia of Neapolitan pizza, but maybe lacked business sense. to fulfill a dream he ended up opening his own super-classic Neapolitan pizzeria in some Mall in the South, only to close shop a year later. Sad to see, but it shows once again that most Americans are expecting pizzas 16 inch wide and 3 inch tall that pack 50,000 calories. Business is all about risk, but you should study the market hard. Picking the ingredients and oven is the easy part.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2019, 03:22:23 PM by BackyardPizzaiolo »

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Offline Jon in Albany

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Re: Starting to work on a Restaurant w/ neapolitan pizza
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2019, 04:18:28 PM »


I would be concerned with the general lack of interest in the USA for Neapolitan pizza (in a commercial setting). Americans want BIG, STUFFY pizzas, hard as a board and with tons of cheese and pepperoni on it. I don't know where you are in NY, but unless you are in some rich/trendy area with a taste of European fanciness, I would be concerned with lack of interest with what is considered a niche and expensive pizza.

There is another forum member called "Pizza Napoletana" (real name Omid), who used to write and write about the history and art of Neapolitan pizza on this forum. He spent considerable time deciphering every aspect of it. I'm sure he was a walking encyclopedia of Neapolitan pizza, but maybe lacked business sense. to fulfill a dream he ended up opening his own super-classic Neapolitan pizzeria in some Mall in the South, only to close shop a year later. Sad to see, but it shows once again that most Americans are expecting pizzas 16 inch wide and 3 inch tall that pack 50,000 calories. Business is all about risk, but you should study the market hard. Picking the ingredients and oven is the easy part.

There was a time I would have had similar thoughts about a Neapolitan pizza place in Upstate, NY. Jay's Artisan outside Buffalo and Fiamma e Vino near Rochester have proven me wrong.

There is plenty that can go wrong in the restaurant business but both of these places have been serving Neapolitan pizza in their Upstate markets for several years.

Offline In Bocca Al Lupo

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Re: Starting to work on a Restaurant w/ neapolitan pizza
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2019, 12:42:48 AM »

I think looking at local flours should be strongly considered. The grain revolution is alive. It is one of the final frontiers of the farm to table movement and there are some amazing flours being produced in the US now.

I would read Sarah Owens book "Heirloom" among others to get a sense of this change. Cairnspring Mills up here in Washington is crushing. Their products are so good some of the top pizzerias in NYC are using them. But Bianco, Beddia, etc all look for options for local ingredients if possible (and it is almost always possible). It may be hard to find something like a local buffalo mozz. But domestic flours are getting better every day.

If you're starting now, naturally leavened seems to be the best play by far as well.

Doing Neapolitan Pizza with anything other than wood is a strange idea to me.


Good luck!!

Offline JBMpls

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Re: Starting to work on a Restaurant w/ neapolitan pizza
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2020, 03:53:17 PM »
I can speak to a local grain from Minnesota called Sunrise Organic Heritage Flour Mill.They are located a little bit north from Minneapolis and have a great Turkey Red Heritage wheat flour (organic).  Whats interesting is it's milled with a Unifine mill which retains more of the wheat so it's more digestible and "better for you". A great flour with a near 00 grind and produces great results. I love the idea of local products, the only downside here is it's more expensive getting local flour than buying Caputo flour shipped from Italy. I go a little lower temp and longer than most NP ..but a little crunch outside and a nice soft chew on the inside. Pictured here is a 80% hydration from 725 degree bake, so more of a Neo Neapolitan.. but so good!   BTW it was cooked with gas as my OONI pro sits in my Minnesota garage (but totaly agree that wood is better tasting). 
« Last Edit: January 02, 2020, 03:59:13 PM by JBMpls »

Online HansB

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Re: Starting to work on a Restaurant w/ neapolitan pizza
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2020, 05:39:42 PM »
^^^

I really like their flour. I use it when making sourdough bread for my girlfriend that has to eat gluten free. It's the only flour that she can tolerate that's not gluten free.
Hans

Offline JBMpls

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Re: Starting to work on a Restaurant w/ neapolitan pizza
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2020, 08:58:43 AM »
Nice to hear that! Yeah that was the basis for the owner opening a mill due to his own Gluten intolerance. I've mentioned this flour to friends with Gluten issues but they have yet to try my pizza. I hope others may chime in with their results around gluten..though we shouldn't cover that subject up in this thread. I came into this as I'd like to learn more about the adventure of opening a restaurant /pizza place myself someday.. It sounds ap-peeeaaling!
« Last Edit: January 03, 2020, 09:02:09 AM by JBMpls »

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