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Author Topic: Anyone having any luck with Assistent/DLX mixers?  (Read 1417 times)

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Offline dragonspawn

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Re: Anyone having any luck with Assistent/DLX mixers?
« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2020, 04:44:33 PM »
Tried another batch for 58% hydration with the Bosch today. For whatever reason, this time the dough just spun around endlessly without ever getting mixed until I got tired of it and just did it by hand again. I don't think I'm doing anything crazy or THAT abnormal here. I've tried a KA 600, DLX and now Bosch UP and none of them can simply mix and knead this dough. I feel like I'm going insane here.

58% is not dry or stiff. It should be able to be handled by all. Here is strategy to test with the DLX. (Credit to varasanos.com with small tweaks).

0. Use steel bowl and roller/scraper combo.

1. Add all of the liquid and the yeast in the bowl. ( I use 0.01 IDY)

2. Add lets say 70-75% of the flour ( I use 00 Divina, around 10% gluten, my batch stars with 1kg flour)

3. Mix with roller next to the rim on low to shaggy mass. Move the roller to the center if some ingredients needs to be picked up.  Stop the mixer.

4. Throw all of the salt on top (to not forget it later).

5. Cover the mixer and leave it for 30 minutes

Advice: Here is the tricky part - you should observe the roller and adjust it depending on the conditions in the bowl. It is not one size fits all/fire and forget affair. Your goal is for the groves in it to fully go into the dough, but the roller to barely move from the dough - if it jumps too much - move it away, if it not going deep enough - closer.

7. Put somewhere above low, below medium and leave the very wet dough to be kneaded for a couple of minutes with the roller slightly away from the bowl - it will form something like a loop that will go below the roller bounce of scraper and close the loop to roller. What I look for is the dough to start to look less wet/less glossy - by that stage it is gathered around the roller and barely touches the scraper.

8. When it is at this stage turn down the speed a bit and start adding flour gradually. The more flour you put the longer it will take for the dough to absorb the next batch.

9. The dough will be stiff. Now comes the part about judging the correct distance. eventually it will soften and move to soft and pliable. We are done.

My formula was:

flour - 100%
water - 61%
salt - 2.6%
instant yeast - 0.01%
fresh kiwi juice - 0.01%

24 hour rt ferment.

This is the end result on the next day - I opened a ball too much and decided to see how far I can stretch it. I think it is adequate gluten development for pizza.

Offline jsobolew

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Re: Anyone having any luck with Assistent/DLX mixers?
« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2020, 08:31:11 PM »
Thanks so much for your reply, dragonspawn. I'll give that a try. Your dough looks great. Can you comment on the addition of kiwi juice though? Definitely the first I've heard of that.

Offline scott r

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Re: Anyone having any luck with Assistent/DLX mixers?
« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2020, 11:00:21 PM »
Damn... Dragonspawn... that looks just like the dough jsobolew is referencing in my video.  That dough looks like it was done in a spiral.  These mixers are both great and you have an awesome (much more concise) write up of how to mix in the DLX than I wrote.  Nice work!


It was nice and smooth, but not as insanely elastic and Scott's infamous video. One thing that I thought was odd was that the mixer seemed to kinda be ramping up and down in speed while staying on speed setting 1 instead of staying totally consistent. Not sure if this is expected or a defect.

Jsobolew, I think its normal for the mixer to ramp up and down like you are describing, I have used a few from different eras and they all do that.   Im sure it will work for many years to come. 

Im so sorry you are not having luck with the Bosch.   I really wonder if they have changed something with that mixer as I see others having issues with it as well. 

Its funny that you referenced that video, I just watched it for the first time since I made it and I realized that it is 10 years old now.  I had no idea it was infamous lol! All I did for that video was throw everything into the mixer at once and turn it on. There may have been a rest period for 10 minutes or so after the first minute of mixing.   It was 60 percent hydration and the flour was definitely full strength from General Mills.  It may have had 2 percent oil in it. It was the stock mixer with just the metal dough hook and white plastic bowl that shipped with it... no extender.  It still works perfectly for me every time I use it to this day. 

I really wonder if the batch size has something to do with why I have such good luck with it and others dont.  As you can see in the video the pile of dough on the countertop looks fairly sizable. Maybe try a batch with king Arther bread flour or all purpose flour at 60 percent hydration, increase your batch size to look like something on my countertop in the video I posted, and try an 8 minute mix on the slowest speed.  Use cold water and if your dough temp hits 78 degrees your done mixing even if your 8 minutes isn't up yet.

Here is the video again 10 years later!

« Last Edit: January 11, 2020, 12:36:29 AM by scott r »

Offline jsobolew

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Re: Anyone having any luck with Assistent/DLX mixers?
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2020, 07:22:21 PM »
Thanks Scott. I think using a larger batch in the Bosch is really the key here. When making just enough for 2 balls, there isn't enough material in the bowl to get it moving around enough and it just spends so much time spinning in a circle. My last batch did fare a little better from adding water first and slowly increasing flour though.

Offline ira

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Re: Anyone having any luck with Assistent/DLX mixers?
« Reply #24 on: January 12, 2020, 02:07:09 PM »
I have the Bosch Universal Plus and having heard people say use a bigger batch I've tried batches up to 3kg and the dough still just slides around the bowl and gets a good knead in every 4 to 10 rotations.  Would not be a problem, but all that dragging seems to heat up the dough.  Seems to work better with 3kg than 2kg but I don't really want to be stuck making that much dough.  Baffles me how many people on the internet claim it's gods gift to kneading bread. It's certainly good at dough and batter. Much faster that the Kitchen Aid at mixing light stuff, but much harder to clean.


Ira

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Offline scott r

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Re: Anyone having any luck with Assistent/DLX mixers?
« Reply #25 on: January 12, 2020, 07:32:59 PM »
Ira, Not saying its gods gift to kneading bread, but still trying to wrap my head around why it works well for me and not others.   Have you tried a short mix just to combine until dry flour is mostly gone, then a 10-20 minute rest and then doing the real mixing?

Offline ira

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Re: Anyone having any luck with Assistent/DLX mixers?
« Reply #26 on: January 12, 2020, 09:17:51 PM »
I think I've tried everything. I let it rest for long periods of time yesterday and it still just spun around the bowl most of the time. It just doesn't seem to get any traction on the sides of the bowl.

Ira

Offline scott r

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Re: Anyone having any luck with Assistent/DLX mixers?
« Reply #27 on: January 13, 2020, 07:12:53 PM »
Such a bummer!  Well I certainly won't be recommending them to anyone any more.   My video uses 60 percent hydration dough so I dont understand why mine mixes so nicely and yours just spins and doesn't mix even at 62% hydration.  If the batch size didn't fix the problem it seems like they must have changed something in the 11 years since I purchased mine.
 
« Last Edit: January 13, 2020, 08:04:37 PM by scott r »

Offline parallei

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Re: Anyone having any luck with Assistent/DLX mixers?
« Reply #28 on: January 13, 2020, 07:43:20 PM »

 Oops!  Post deleted.  I was commenting on the Bosch Universal Plus. :-[

Offline scott r

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Re: Anyone having any luck with Assistent/DLX mixers?
« Reply #29 on: January 13, 2020, 08:06:08 PM »
As far as I know, we are talking about the Bosch universal plus.  Sorry this thread is probably confusing because there are comments and pics/videos about both.

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Offline parallei

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Re: Anyone having any luck with Assistent/DLX mixers?
« Reply #30 on: January 13, 2020, 10:51:38 PM »
As far as I know, we are talking about the Bosch universal plus.  Sorry this thread is probably confusing because there are comments and pics/videos about both.

Well, in that case:

Such a bummer!  Well I certainly won't be recommending them to anyone any more.   My video uses 60 percent hydration dough so I dont understand why mine mixes so nicely and yours just spins and doesn't mix even at 62% hydration.  If the batch size didn't fix the problem it seems like they must have changed something in the 11 years since I purchased mine.
 

I bought a BUP a couple of years ago.  I do not use it all that often but used it a few days ago for a SMALL batch (460g) of 64% HR pizza dough. I use the hook extension thing.  Always works like a charm, even with a small batch. No "spinning." Salt into water while I get the other ingredients together, add flour and IDY rough mix, rest 20min, mix on Speed 1 for 6min or so.  Done. I recommend the BUP.

Offline jsobolew

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Re: Anyone having any luck with Assistent/DLX mixers?
« Reply #31 on: January 14, 2020, 01:16:08 AM »
My recent 62% batches on the Bosch have been a little better. I add liquid first then slowly add flour until it's mostly incorporated then I take the hook off and work the remaining bits by hand to make sure it all comes together. After that I just patiently let it go for about 5-10 mins. It probably spins around 10 times then gets 1 knead in but eventually it all works out. I haven't retried a 58% again this way but I will soon.
Also, my missing scraper attachment finally came from Magic Mill after going through some of the worst customer service I've experienced so I'll give the DLX another go.

Offline dragonspawn

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Re: Anyone having any luck with Assistent/DLX mixers?
« Reply #32 on: January 14, 2020, 12:51:52 PM »
Thanks so much for your reply, dragonspawn. I'll give that a try. Your dough looks great. Can you comment on the addition of kiwi juice though? Definitely the first I've heard of that.

According to modernist bread some of the enzimes inside it are dough relaxants - so they help with extensibility. Ditto with pineapple and papaya juice.

Offline megan45

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Re: Anyone having any luck with Assistent/DLX mixers?
« Reply #33 on: January 14, 2020, 02:10:19 PM »
My recent 62% batches on the Bosch have been a little better. I add liquid first then slowly add flour until it's mostly incorporated then I take the hook off and work the remaining bits by hand to make sure it all comes together. After that I just patiently let it go for about 5-10 mins. It probably spins around 10 times then gets 1 knead in but eventually it all works out. I haven't retried a 58% again this way but I will soon.

Instead of adding the flour all at one go, try adding it in two stages.

Mix half the flour into the water and let the mixture (which will be a gloopy mess) sit for 10 minutes to hydrate, then add the yeast, salt, and oil (if using), mixing after each addition, then slowly add the rest of the flour. I've been doing it that way from the get-go, and haven't had a problem with the dough spinning without kneading. My take is that fully hydrated dough takes up/absorbs dry flour faster than partially hydrated dough (the flour "sticks" to wetter dough than it does to dryer dough), so the flour gets incorporated into the dough mass more quickly, leaving less dry flour (micro ball bearings) to fall to the bottom of the bowl for the dough to ride on.

Offline dragonspawn

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Re: Anyone having any luck with Assistent/DLX mixers?
« Reply #34 on: January 17, 2020, 04:45:06 PM »
This is the windowpanning of a 2kg batch of brioche dough made with 10% protein flour, 50% butter content with the Ankarsrum. After 30 minutes of kneading on the 4-5 o'clock position of the speed knob (the fastest that is empty rectangle).

One trick I found is that you should from time to time push  the dough knife/scraper inside of the bowl - this way there is a lot of shearing force there, also the dough gets pushed to the dead center of the bowl where it is spun like a thread and fed to the roller. The other half is stuck to the side and also enters the roller. After some time you will see how with pushing the knife inside the dough is strong enough to to wrap the dough knife and the roller together and keep the knife from returning for a while to the side.

Because the max resistence that the motor must overcome is limited by the friction of the dough/bowl interface - it is lower than that of a standard stand mixer, you can operate it at higher speeds.

I will try to upload video if there is interest. But I do think it is potent machine. But it is not fire and forget.


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Offline jsobolew

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Re: Anyone having any luck with Assistent/DLX mixers?
« Reply #35 on: February 14, 2020, 04:38:58 PM »
After finally getting a replacement for my scraper attachment, I had another go with the DLX mixer last night. I tried to follow Dragonspawn's instructions and it turned out ok, much better than my previous attempt but it just seemed to take so long to get fully mixed until I had a smooth ball. Probably 2-3 times longer than the Bosch. Even though it takes longer, I noticed it did not heat the dough up as much as the Bosch.

Dragonspawn, how long do you usually knead your pizza dough once you get a smooth ball? The DLX is just so gentle, I have a hard time understanding how you got it so stretchable. I definitely wasn't getting a windowpane or near the stretchability of your photos above, even by finishing with a few minutes of hand kneading.

Offline dragonspawn

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Re: Anyone having any luck with Assistent/DLX mixers?
« Reply #36 on: February 17, 2020, 06:02:57 AM »
Dragonspawn, how long do you usually knead your pizza dough once you get a smooth ball? The DLX is just so gentle, I have a hard time understanding how you got it so stretchable. I definitely wasn't getting a windowpane or near the stretchability of your photos above, even by finishing with a few minutes of hand kneading.

The picture of the opened ball was on the next day after long RT ferment. The gluten was relaxed as a cat in the sun. And the brioche is insanely rich dough so it is stretchable by default when properly developed. Usually my total kneading time for pizza is around 30-40 minutes on 2 o'clock position (I am not in a hurry). But I rarely get good transparent windowpane in the mixer bowl for lean dough. It shows after brief rest - give it 30 minutes rest after kneading and it will be very different beast elastic wise. I guess it comes down to the additional flower fully hydrating.

But I am still learning - the last dough i probably mixed it for close to an hour - it was very slow to open, the dough itself was tough, but once opened - no shrinking AND it baked into what I consider the perfect pizza crust. 

Lately I am leaning towards longer autolysis and longer rest periods - the good thing of not being a pizzaria is that you have all the time in world.


Offline jsobolew

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Re: Anyone having any luck with Assistent/DLX mixers?
« Reply #37 on: March 26, 2020, 03:24:56 AM »
I should update and say that I did two very large batches in my DLX today and they turned out great. I'm doing a pizza takeout service just for my friends during this isolation period and I have 12 pizzas to make on Saturday, the most I've ever made. All in all, I made about 12lbs of dough in two equal batches and the mixer really did it's thing well with batches that size without me really having to intervene. I think these mixers really excel at larger batches but there isn't enough material to keep things circulating in really small batches. I've adapted to just do everything by hand when only making a couple pizzas and it's actually very fast and easy.

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