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Author Topic: Making poolish again. Need advice!  (Read 341 times)

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Offline Makisupapoliceman

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Making poolish again. Need advice!
« on: January 04, 2020, 04:40:31 AM »
Hey everyone! I am trying poolish again. I have had some rough experiences with it but think I know where I have been going wrong. I just want to clarify some things before moving forward. Here is my recipe...
100% flour
63% water
2% salt
1% ldmp
1% oil
0.35% idy

My process will be 20% of the total water/flour and 20% of the yeast. Making the poolish 100gr water, 100gr flour and 0.35 yeast. I will be keeping at room temp for 12 hours. Is this too much yeast? And how much would you suggest? Also, does this starter take place of the yeast? Am I adding only the starter and no yeast anymore? Should I drop the percentages down to 15% or 10%? Iím just trying to figure out the percentages of using the yeast and making the poolish while keeping my same recipe if that makes sense. Hope to hear from you guys soon!
« Last Edit: January 04, 2020, 05:47:27 AM by Makisupapoliceman »

Offline foreplease

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Re: Making poolish again. Need advice!
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2020, 08:15:48 AM »
Some of your yeast answer depends on your plan for the dough from the moment you combine the poolish and the remaining ingredients from your formula to make the finished dough. If this is a solid formula you have made and like without the poolish step, then in my opinion it can only be made better by incorporating a poolish. I find it easiest to think of in terms of using the same ingredients and same amounts but combining them differently.


When I look at your yeast amount (which looks fine) for your poolish I get 20% (0.2) x 0.35% (0.0035) = 0.0007 of the total formula flour. As a check, using the same percentage of yeast in your poolish as there is in the total formula amount I get 100 g flour x 0.35% (0.0035) = 0.35 g yeast. Same as you came up with.


What have your rough experiences been? What happens and for how long once everything is combined to make your finished dough? No, the starter does not take the place of the remaining yeast. Given enough fermentation time that might work but then you would be using a different formula. If you like the dough formula, try changing your finished dough temp, amount of time at CF, and amount of time at RT (whatever combination you like or your schedule can accommodate) to make 0.35% yeast work.


Good luck. If we are going to look further into this it would help to know how many grams = 100% of your flour amount.
-Tony

Offline Makisupapoliceman

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Re: Making poolish again. Need advice!
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2020, 03:36:38 AM »
Hey thanks for the response! I am a home cook so the batches I do are usually 500 gram flour batches. I love my recipe so I want to keep it as close as possible. When I made it in the past it is either way too sticky or is WAY too airy. Thatís why I was thinking to use it in place of more yeast. Usually I will make the poolish, mix in with everything, let sit out for 4 hours bulk, then ball up and throw in fridge for 24 hours.


Some of your yeast answer depends on your plan for the dough from the moment you combine the poolish and the remaining ingredients from your formula to make the finished dough. If this is a solid formula you have made and like without the poolish step, then in my opinion it can only be made better by incorporating a poolish. I find it easiest to think of in terms of using the same ingredients and same amounts but combining them differently.


When I look at your yeast amount (which looks fine) for your poolish I get 20% (0.2) x 0.35% (0.0035) = 0.0007 of the total formula flour. As a check, using the same percentage of yeast in your poolish as there is in the total formula amount I get 100 g flour x 0.35% (0.0035) = 0.35 g yeast. Same as you came up with.


What have your rough experiences been? What happens and for how long once everything is combined to make your finished dough? No, the starter does not take the place of the remaining yeast. Given enough fermentation time that might work but then you would be using a different formula. If you like the dough formula, try changing your finished dough temp, amount of time at CF, and amount of time at RT (whatever combination you like or your schedule can accommodate) to make 0.35% yeast work.


Good luck. If we are going to look further into this it would help to know how many grams = 100% of your flour amount.

Offline foreplease

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Re: Making poolish again. Need advice!
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2020, 04:39:21 AM »
A couple ideas:
Use cold-ish water if you are not doing so already. You might try dropping your water amount to 62% as you have another 1% effective hydration from the oil. Try making this dough exactly as you list it above, skip the poolish step, and mix everything at once. If it is still sticky, try a second batch with a higher protein flour such as bread flour (I do not know what you are currently using). If that does not improve things, I think we need to determine which strength ldmp you are using. If you have 20L 1% should be ok. If, like me, you have 60L then you may need to reduce the amount you are using by two-thirds.

One or more of the changes above should get you something less sticky. Thatís on the front end of your dough making: immediately after mixing. To combat ďway too airy,Ē I suspect you should get your dough balls into the refrigerator right away rather than after 4 hrs at RT. For 500 g flour I would go to balls right away rather than bulk. 22 or more hours later pull it from the fridge about 2 hrs before you want to use it and let it warm, as DoughDoctor says, at room temperature. I think this will give you a dough that has a consistently more even crumb with fewer voids and large bubbles.

That is quite a few small changes as ideas. Try one thing at a time and keep track of how things change. There are people here a lot better at this than I am. Hopefully we can keep the conversation going and hope one of them sees this. I donít think you are far off, honestly.

EDIT: meant to say after paragraph 1: once you get a dough that is less sticky and handles better we can deconstruct your formula and work in using a poolish again. It will be easy. Good luck.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2020, 04:43:48 AM by foreplease »
-Tony

Offline Makisupapoliceman

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Re: Making poolish again. Need advice!
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2020, 05:17:53 AM »
Thanks for the response! I always use cold water and am currently using all trumps HG flour so the protein is high already. Never thought about reducing the hydration I will definitely try that. I will use the poolish in place of the extra yeast as well and see where that brings me. Thanks again! If anyone else has anything they would like to add, it all ears!

A couple ideas:
Use cold-ish water if you are not doing so already. You might try dropping your water amount to 62% as you have another 1% effective hydration from the oil. Try making this dough exactly as you list it above, skip the poolish step, and mix everything at once. If it is still sticky, try a second batch with a higher protein flour such as bread flour (I do not know what you are currently using). If that does not improve things, I think we need to determine which strength ldmp you are using. If you have 20L 1% should be ok. If, like me, you have 60L then you may need to reduce the amount you are using by two-thirds.

One or more of the changes above should get you something less sticky. Thatís on the front end of your dough making: immediately after mixing. To combat ďway too airy,Ē I suspect you should get your dough balls into the refrigerator right away rather than after 4 hrs at RT. For 500 g flour I would go to balls right away rather than bulk. 22 or more hours later pull it from the fridge about 2 hrs before you want to use it and let it warm, as DoughDoctor says, at room temperature. I think this will give you a dough that has a consistently more even crumb with fewer voids and large bubbles.

That is quite a few small changes as ideas. Try one thing at a time and keep track of how things change. There are people here a lot better at this than I am. Hopefully we can keep the conversation going and hope one of them sees this. I donít think you are far off, honestly.

EDIT: meant to say after paragraph 1: once you get a dough that is less sticky and handles better we can deconstruct your formula and work in using a poolish again. It will be easy. Good luck.

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