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Author Topic: Advice on achieving these results (Tighter Crumb, Doughy top)  (Read 601 times)

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Offline AnotherOneBitesTheCrust

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Hey guys,
Haven't been on here much anymore but still making lots of pies. 

Im looking to accomplish a couple things for one of the styles of Sicilian I make.

1. I want a tighter crumb.
I would like to continue to use the dough I use now, as I like the flavor profile and the way it cooks.   
If I were to let it proof only until it fit the pan, and then top and bake as soon as I finish stretching it, would that help with tightening it up?


2. I want just the top layer of dough, just under the sauce to be slightly undercooked.

I was thinking of basting the dough (minus the outer rim) with water based off other methods i've seen used.


Thoughts? Or better ideas?


Thanks!


Offline scott r

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Re: Advice on achieving these results (Tighter Crumb, Doughy top)
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2020, 09:59:56 AM »
1)  lower hydration, more mixing, less final proof in pan

2)  hotter oven,  no par bake (top with all ingredients before bake), sauce should go directly on crust before cheese or any other toppings, wetter sauce, more oil in crust
« Last Edit: January 04, 2020, 10:01:30 AM by scott r »

Offline IEatPizzaByThePie

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Re: Advice on achieving these results (Tighter Crumb, Doughy top)
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2020, 01:00:39 PM »
What Scott said. And don't be afraid to experiment with thin slices of mozz right on top of the dough first, either. That's how some pizza joints in Chicago do it and it can produce a gummy-like texture.
"Who the hell eats two cookies? I eat Fig Newtons by the sleeve. Two sleeves is a serving size!"

Offline AnotherOneBitesTheCrust

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Re: Advice on achieving these results (Tighter Crumb, Doughy top)
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2020, 01:03:12 PM »
1)  lower hydration, more mixing, less final proof in pan

2)  hotter oven,  no par bake (top with all ingredients before bake), sauce should go directly on crust before cheese or any other toppings, wetter sauce, more oil in crust


Thanks

I currently use a fairly low hydration but will try bumping it down a little more next time.

I do everything you suggested in #2.  I was actually thinking the opposite, and wanted to try sliced cheese directly on the crust for today's bake.

Offline AnotherOneBitesTheCrust

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Re: Advice on achieving these results (Tighter Crumb, Doughy top)
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2020, 01:07:03 PM »
What Scott said. And don't be afraid to experiment with thin slices of mozz right on top of the dough first, either. That's how some pizza joints in Chicago do it and it can produce a gummy-like texture.


Well that confirms it, definitely trying cheese first.

Im currently low 60s for this particular dough.  Should I drop in the 50s?   I'm gonna try a short 20 minute proof today.  If it stretches all the way the first try, it's going directly in the oven. 

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Offline Jose L. Piedra

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Re: Advice on achieving these results (Tighter Crumb, Doughy top)
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2020, 02:58:41 PM »
Quote
2. I want just the top layer of dough, just under the sauce to be slightly undercooked.

Sauce it before parbaking if you're not doing so already.

Also if you stretch it, top and bake without pan rise or parbake it's not going to be a Sicilian anymore but a regular pizza in square form.

Offline IEatPizzaByThePie

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Re: Advice on achieving these results (Tighter Crumb, Doughy top)
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2020, 12:34:38 PM »

Well that confirms it, definitely trying cheese first.

Im currently low 60s for this particular dough.  Should I drop in the 50s?   I'm gonna try a short 20 minute proof today.  If it stretches all the way the first try, it's going directly in the oven.

58-62% hydration seems to be the typical range used for Sicilian style. When I make a Detroit pie, I personally like to go quite a bit higher (+70%) so I get a spongy crust.

I would suggest trying 62% hydration with bread flour; knead about 5 minutes, turn out and pat into well oiled pan, ferment at room temp a couple hours, finish stretching to fit the pan and let sit another couple hours to rise. I would then do a short parbake with a small amount of sauce, add thin layers of mozz, followed by toppings/cheese and finish with dollops of sauce and bake until edges are crispy.
"Who the hell eats two cookies? I eat Fig Newtons by the sleeve. Two sleeves is a serving size!"

Offline AnotherOneBitesTheCrust

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Re: Advice on achieving these results (Tighter Crumb, Doughy top)
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2020, 01:36:51 PM »
58-62% hydration seems to be the typical range used for Sicilian style. When I make a Detroit pie, I personally like to go quite a bit higher (+70%) so I get a spongy crust.

I would suggest trying 62% hydration with bread flour; knead about 5 minutes, turn out and pat into well oiled pan, ferment at room temp a couple hours, finish stretching to fit the pan and let sit another couple hours to rise. I would then do a short parbake with a small amount of sauce, add thin layers of mozz, followed by toppings/cheese and finish with dollops of sauce and bake until edges are crispy.



Im at 62, so I'll try dropping to 58.

I did get a slightly tighter crumb last night by using a short 20min proof. 


I layered the cheese first last night and it started to give me that effect.  I think I need to up my thickness coefficient a little as well for this.

Offline benjacobdavid

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Re: Advice on achieving these results (Tighter Crumb, Doughy top)
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2020, 10:32:34 AM »
If you have another sheet pan of the same size, you could oil the dough, wrap it, then place the sheet tray on top of the dough for the second rise, that will keep the bubbles to a minimum.

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