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### Author Topic: Pizza Bible Master dough with starter ?????  (Read 1016 times)

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#### onecheck

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##### Pizza Bible Master dough with starter ?????
« on: January 08, 2020, 11:39:25 AM »
???I need your help regarding the Pizza Bibles master dough with starter.

1. Look at the original recipe for master dough with starter. I then adjusted the recipe according to the Bakers % chart using the Lehmann Pizza Dough Calculator for a 16" pie. Did I do this correct?

2. My second questions is. If you look at the bottom of the bakers percentage chart in the pro tip. I cant figure how to adjust the starter for the 16" pie.

#### gbakay

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##### Re: Pizza Bible Master dough with starter ?????
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2020, 02:54:47 PM »
Hi Onecheck

In the Lehman dough calculation, if you want Tony's sourdough instructions, your water should be 64%, you have 65%. As for making your dough with a sourdough starter, substrate your dry and wet ingredients from the your dough formula.

Example if your starter has 30g of flour, 30g of water and .02g of yeast then substrate that amount from your dough amount. So if your dough amount flour is 668g substrate 30g = 638 grams of flour. Do the same for the water and yeast.

Pete or other members could correct me if I'm wrong but that's my understanding.

#### Pete-zza

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##### Re: Pizza Bible Master dough with starter ?????
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2020, 04:41:27 PM »
onecheck,

Tony G does a lot of rounding off of numbers so it is hard to say exactly how to adjust the formulation for your purposes. But maybe I can take a stab at creating what I believe to be the formulation for your purposes. It would help to know whether you plan to use the tiga or poolish starter (your photo suggests the tiga), and if you plan to stick with the ADY as your form of yeast. I am also assuming that you plan to use the master dough recipe as given at page 44 but adjusted for the size (16") of pizza you would like to make.

I think what the Pro Tip proposes to do is to have one add the flour used in the tiga or poolish to the 100% flour number (453 grams) and then adjust (increase) the amounts of salt, malt and oil using the baker's percents for those ingredients (as given at page 302 of Tony's book) with respect to the total flour weight. The baker's percent of the water will also increase when you add the water in the starter to the amount of water (70 + 210 = 280 grams) specified in Tony's recipe at page 44.

Peter

#### onecheck

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##### Re: Pizza Bible Master dough with starter ?????
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2020, 05:26:56 PM »

Im planning to use the tiga starter with ADY for the master dough recipe on page 44. If you look on top of the page of 44 the recipe makes 29 ounces (820 grams) of dough, enough for 1 pizza. However, It doesn't mention the size of the pizza the dough makes. Do you know what size the pizza calls for in the recipe on page 44?

My goal is to make dough for two 16" pies using ADY and the tiga starter

#### Pete-zza

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##### Re: Pizza Bible Master dough with starter ?????
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2020, 06:18:04 PM »
onecheck,

Actually, Tony G's recipe at page 44 makes a dough ball that weighs 854.34 grams, or 30.14 ounces. The difference is because I use 26.35 grams instead of 28 grams to convert from ounces to grams. In actual practice, the total dough batch weight is perhaps less than Tony states in the book because of minor dough losses incurred in the preparation of making and kneading the dough. I should also note that there was an errata sheet that came with my book that said that the recipe at page 44 is intended to be used to make 2 to 3 pizzas depending on the pizza being made.

As for the pizza size issue, at the top of page 52, for a NY style dough using a tiga or poolish starter, a dough ball weight of 370 grams is said to make a 13" pizza. However, in another recipe given at page 60, and also calling for the use of a tiga or poolish starter, the same dough ball weight can be used to make a 14" pizza. There are other recipes in the book that can also use a tiga or poolish starter, so you should decide on which recipe you would like to use before proceeding further.

Peter

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#### onecheck

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##### Re: Pizza Bible Master dough with starter ?????
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2020, 06:24:44 PM »
Thanks for your quick reply. I'm trying to make a 16" NY style pizza using a starter. I didn't realize how hard it is to adjust a recipe with a starter to make a 16" NYC style pizza. I'm new to pizza making it gets overwhelming.

#### Pete-zza

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##### Re: Pizza Bible Master dough with starter ?????
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2020, 06:52:24 PM »
Thanks for your quick reply. I'm trying to make a 16" NY style pizza using a starter. I didn't realize how hard it is to adjust a recipe with a starter to make a 16" NYC style pizza. I'm new to pizza making it gets overwhelming.
onecheck,

I forgot to ask you how many dough balls you would like to make.

Peter

#### onecheck

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##### Re: Pizza Bible Master dough with starter ?????
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2020, 07:00:19 PM »
two 16"

#### Pete-zza

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##### Re: Pizza Bible Master dough with starter ?????
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2020, 08:27:24 PM »
onecheck,

If Tony G calls for using 13 ounces of dough for a 13" NY style pizza, that translates to a thickness factor of 13/(3.14159 x 6.5 x 6.5) = 0.097942.

There are a few ways of accomplishing your objectives but for our purposes I plan to use the thickness factor approach in the preferment dough calculating tool at https://www.pizzamaking.com/preferment-calculator.html. That tool was designed for preferments using natural yeast rather than commercial yeast, such as ADY, but the amount of ADY that you would be using is small enough that I can tweak the numbers in the preferment dough calculating tool to get quite close to what you want to do, with greater accuracy than the numbers used in Tony's book.

But before creating the formulation for you to use, I am setting forth the entire formulation as set forth in Tony's book in case either you or some other members would like to have that formulation. Producing that formulation also allows me to be sure that I have all of the numbers right. For my purposes in creating Tony's version, I calculated that the total dough batch weight is 854.34 grams. I should also mention that since the preferment dough calculating tool does not have an entry for diastatic malt, I have used the sugar entry in that tool and I have deleted the volume conversions since those conversions apply only to sugar.

Here is Tony's dough formulation:

 Total Formula:Flour (100%):Water (62.8%):Salt (1.95858%):ADY (0.461%):Oil (0.98426%):Diastatic Malt (1.9685%):Total (168.17234%):Tiga Preferment: Flour: Water: Total: Final Dough:Flour:Water:Salt:ADY:Tiga Preferment:Oil:Diastatic Malt:Total: 508.01 g  |  17.92 oz | 1.12 lbs319.03 g  |  11.25 oz | 0.7 lbs9.95 g | 0.35 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.78 tsp | 0.59 tbsp2.34 g | 0.08 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.62 tsp | 0.21 tbsp5 g | 0.18 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.11 tsp | 0.37 tbsp10 g | 0.35 oz | 0.02 lbs 854.34 g | 30.14 oz | 1.88 lbs | TF = N/A  55.14 g | 1.94 oz | 0.12 lbs39 g | 1.38 oz | 0.09 lbs94.14 g | 3.32 oz | 0.21 lbs (Note: add 0.14g ADY) 452.87 g | 15.97 oz | 1 lbs280.03 g | 9.88 oz | 0.62 lbs9.95 g | 0.35 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.78 tsp | 0.59 tbsp2.34 g | 0.08 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.62 tsp | 0.21 tbsp94.14 g | 3.32 oz | 0.21 lbs5 g | 0.18 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.11 tsp | 0.37 tbsp10 g | 0.35 oz | 0.02 lbs 854.34 g | 30.14 oz | 1.88 lbs  | TF = N/A

In using the preferment dough calculating tool, the weight of the tiga preferment is equal to 18.5312% of the Total Formula Flour, and its % of water is equal to 41.4277%. No bowl residue compensation was used.

For your formulation for two dough balls, I used the abovementioned thickness factor in the preferment dough calculating tool along with all of the entries as used for Tony's dough formulation and the preferment data referenced above. And doing that, this is what we get:

 Total Formula:Flour (100%):Water (62.8%):Salt (1.95858%):ADY (0.461%):Oil (0.98425%):Diastatic Malt (1.9685%):Total (168.17233%):Single Ball:Tiga Preferment: Flour: Water: Total: Final Dough:Flour:Water:Salt:ADY:Tiga Preferment:Oil:Diastatic Malt:Total: 663.94 g  |  23.42 oz | 1.46 lbs416.95 g  |  14.71 oz | 0.92 lbs13 g | 0.46 oz | 0.03 lbs | 2.33 tsp | 0.78 tbsp3.06 g | 0.11 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.81 tsp | 0.27 tbsp6.53 g | 0.23 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.45 tsp | 0.48 tbsp13.07 g | 0.46 oz | 0.03 lbs 1116.56 g | 39.38 oz | 2.46 lbs | TF = 0.097942558.28 g | 19.69 oz | 1.23 lbs  72.06 g | 2.54 oz | 0.16 lbs50.97 g | 1.8 oz | 0.11 lbs123.04 g | 4.34 oz | 0.27 lbs (Note: Add a bit more than 0.18g ADY) 591.87 g | 20.88 oz | 1.3 lbs365.98 g | 12.91 oz | 0.81 lbs13 g | 0.46 oz | 0.03 lbs | 2.33 tsp | 0.78 tbsp2.88 g | 0.10 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.64 tsp | 0.21 tbsp123.22 g | 4.36 oz | 0.27 lbs6.53 g | 0.23 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.45 tsp | 0.48 tbsp13.07 g | 0.46 oz | 0.03 lbs 1116.56 g | 39.38 oz | 2.46 lbs  | TF = 0.097942
Note: The dough is for two dough balls for two 16" pizzas; the weight of the tiga preferment is equal to 18.5312% of the Total Formula Flour, and its % of water is equal to 41.4277%; no bowl residue compensation was used

If you have any questions relative to the above, please let me know.

Peter

« Last Edit: January 09, 2020, 08:31:06 PM by Pete-zza »

#### onecheck

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##### Re: Pizza Bible Master dough with starter ?????
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2020, 08:53:04 AM »
Thank you for your help. I will give it a try with help from family.

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#### onecheck

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##### Re: Pizza Bible Master dough with starter ?????
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2020, 07:24:53 PM »
@Pete-zza

My sister made the tiga starter and it came out like liquid. Should the water be 39G instead of 55G and the Flour be 55G instead of 39G? Is the starter suppose to be watery? Thanks for your help
« Last Edit: January 09, 2020, 07:37:18 PM by onecheck »

#### Pete-zza

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##### Re: Pizza Bible Master dough with starter ?????
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2020, 07:39:17 PM »
@Pete-zza

My sister made the tiga starter and it came out like liquid. Should the water be 39G instead of 55G and the Flour be 55G instead of 39G? Is the starter suppose to be watery? Thanks for your help
onecheck,

You are correct. The flour and water quantities should be reversed. In my haste to get something to you quickly I missed that. That will also affect the makeup of the Final Dough. I will have to go back to the drawing board and correct what I posted earlier.

Peter

#### Pete-zza

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##### Re: Pizza Bible Master dough with starter ?????
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2020, 08:33:27 PM »
onecheck,

I went back to my earlier post and I believe I have corrected the errors. If you spot any others, please let me know. If there are no others, I will come back and clean up the unnecessary posts so they don't clutter the thread.

Peter

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