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Author Topic: Which electric oven for Neapolitan?  (Read 733 times)

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Offline Wario

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Which electric oven for Neapolitan?
« on: January 12, 2020, 09:16:09 AM »
I own a ferarri oven and would like to upgrade to a better electric oven for Neapolitan style pizza. Preferably second best to a wood-fire oven. What do you suggest?
« Last Edit: January 12, 2020, 09:17:53 AM by Wario »

Offline champignon

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Re: Which electric oven for Neapolitan?
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2020, 11:01:12 AM »
I own a ferarri oven and would like to upgrade to a better electric oven for Neapolitan style pizza. Preferably second best to a wood-fire oven. What do you suggest?

If you are looking in the "home electric NP oven space," there is probably only one choice, which would be the Breville Pizzaiolo.  There are many threads on this board and the home oven subsection about this oven; use the search function.  The other 110v electric ovens won't get up to NP like temperatures.  There are no 220v electric ovens that I know of that both reach NP temps and are of a size and type that they could be considered "home" ovens.

Most people trying to make NP pizza at home who are not using the Breville use small outdoor gas ovens of one sort or another.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2020, 11:04:02 AM by champignon »

Offline amolapizza

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Re: Which electric oven for Neapolitan?
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2020, 11:10:57 AM »
I think there are a few European ovens that can put up a fight.  I own this one Effeuno P134H: https://www.effeuno.biz/en/20/commercial-electric-ovens-for-bakery-and-pizza/26/easy-pizza-line/261/one-pizza-oven
Jack,

Effeuno P134H (1700W upper element), EGO 500C Thermostat (upper), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Sacorosso, Mutti Pelati Bio.

Offline champignon

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Re: Which electric oven for Neapolitan?
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2020, 03:30:54 PM »
I think there are a few European ovens that can put up a fight.  I own this one Effeuno P134H: https://www.effeuno.biz/en/20/commercial-electric-ovens-for-bakery-and-pizza/26/easy-pizza-line/261/one-pizza-oven

450 C/ 842 F, the maximum temp reported for this oven, is a bit shy of NP temps, generally stated to be about 500C.  Whether this will really matter is up to you, which I guess depends on how flexible is your definition of NP pizza. 

If the low 800s are satisfactory to you, the Waring WPO 500, which operates on 110v can get into this range.  I use it for extended sessions at about 750F, but it will go higher and above 800.  The waring is a very large and heavy commercial quality oven that takes up a lot of space; I'm unfamiliar with the "European" oven referred to above, but would add that at 220v one needs to have that service easily available in the home to use it for a freestanding oven, and most N. American kitchens don't have spare 220v sockets within easy reach. 

Another point I would make is that freestanding ovens usually have safety switches which will turn off the oven for 15 or more minutes when the oven gets to a critical temperature, which could be quite close to the maximum temperature allowed on the thermostatic dial.  The result of operating any freestanding oven with the temperature setting at absolute maximum is the possibility of random shut-offs right in the middle of a pizza making session, and if this happens the oven is not going to fire up again for a while so your pizza will be ruined, and you won't be able to make any more until the safety switch resets, which you likely cannot do manually.  So it's probably best with a freestanding oven to plan on using it at slightly below the absolute maximum quoted temperature, the result being that you will be even further from real NP temps.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2020, 03:32:33 PM by champignon »

Offline Wario

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Re: Which electric oven for Neapolitan?
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2020, 04:16:08 AM »
Good point champignon, but perhaps it is easy to tear out the thermostate like with the Ferrari oven.

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Offline amolapizza

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Re: Which electric oven for Neapolitan?
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2020, 01:15:47 PM »
450 C/ 842 F, the maximum temp reported for this oven, is a bit shy of NP temps, generally stated to be about 500C.  Whether this will really matter is up to you, which I guess depends on how flexible is your definition of NP pizza. 
.
.
Another point I would make is that freestanding ovens usually have safety switches which will turn off the oven for 15 or more minutes when the oven gets to a critical temperature, which could be quite close to the maximum temperature allowed on the thermostatic dial.  The result of operating any freestanding oven with the temperature setting at absolute maximum is the possibility of random shut-offs right in the middle of a pizza making session, and if this happens the oven is not going to fire up again for a while so your pizza will be ruined, and you won't be able to make any more until the safety switch resets, which you likely cannot do manually.  So it's probably best with a freestanding oven to plan on using it at slightly below the absolute maximum quoted temperature, the result being that you will be even further from real NP temps.

I wouldn't want to recommend importing a European oven for use in the States.  My post was just a reaction to the statement "There are no 220v electric ovens that I know of that both reach NP temps and are of a size and type that they could be considered "home" ovens."

AFAIK there are a few more brands than Effeuno available over here.  Effeuno does occasionally sell the above linked oven with 500C thermostats, and they have other models available like the Gara which comes with 550C thermostats or electronic controls (PID).

My P134H used to do Neapolitan in 80-90 seconds with a 450C thermostat, after changing it to a 500C it does it in just about 60 seconds.  Note that it's security thermostat cuts at around 561C.

I think it's probably hard (or impossible) to build a 110V oven that reaches these kind of temperatures.  Maybe a good alternative in the states is to look for a small gas fired oven?  From my limited experience of cooking in gas fired ovens, it's a really nice option.
Jack,

Effeuno P134H (1700W upper element), EGO 500C Thermostat (upper), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Sacorosso, Mutti Pelati Bio.

Offline amolapizza

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Re: Which electric oven for Neapolitan?
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2020, 01:19:46 PM »
Good point champignon, but perhaps it is easy to tear out the thermostate like with the Ferrari oven.

I did change one of the thermostats in my oven from 450C to 500C, it reduced the minimum cooking time from about 80-90 seconds to about 60 seconds.  It wasn't a lot of work, but of course it voids the warranty..
Jack,

Effeuno P134H (1700W upper element), EGO 500C Thermostat (upper), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Sacorosso, Mutti Pelati Bio.

Offline champignon

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Re: Which electric oven for Neapolitan?
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2020, 12:08:02 AM »
I wouldn't want to recommend importing a European oven for use in the States.  My post was just a reaction to the statement "There are no 220v electric ovens that I know of that both reach NP temps and are of a size and type that they could be considered "home" ovens."

AFAIK there are a few more brands than Effeuno available over here.  Effeuno does occasionally sell the above linked oven with 500C thermostats, and they have other models available like the Gara which comes with 550C thermostats or electronic controls (PID).

My P134H used to do Neapolitan in 80-90 seconds with a 450C thermostat, after changing it to a 500C it does it in just about 60 seconds.  Note that it's security thermostat cuts at around 561C.

I think it's probably hard (or impossible) to build a 110V oven that reaches these kind of temperatures.  Maybe a good alternative in the states is to look for a small gas fired oven?  From my limited experience of cooking in gas fired ovens, it's a really nice option.

I suggested a small outdoor gas oven in my first response :-)

Offline champignon

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Re: Which electric oven for Neapolitan?
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2020, 12:10:24 AM »
I did change one of the thermostats in my oven from 450C to 500C, it reduced the minimum cooking time from about 80-90 seconds to about 60 seconds.  It wasn't a lot of work, but of course it voids the warranty..

Most warranties for fairly cheap equipment aren't worth much anyway.  An exception for me was my Waring WPO 500.  The temperature gauge got stuck at the far end of the range and stopped working.  Waring replaced the oven, which was no mean feat since given the size and weight of the oven, it must have cost them several hundred dollars to send me the new one and to pick up the old one by LTL freight carrier.

Offline ccgus

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Re: Which electric oven for Neapolitan?
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2020, 12:39:00 PM »
I think it's probably hard (or impossible) to build a 110V oven that reaches these kind of temperatures.  Maybe a good alternative in the states is to look for a small gas fired oven?  From my limited experience of cooking in gas fired ovens, it's a really nice option.

It's not impossible to build an oven that hits 1000+ on a 110V, I've done it (and it involved a 30amp circuit as well). But, I wouldn't recommend it. Even though it could bake pizzas in 45-60 seconds, once I got a Roccbox (outdoor gas oven) I threw the electric ones in the trash.

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Offline amolapizza

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Re: Which electric oven for Neapolitan?
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2020, 01:02:15 PM »
Yeah, I was specifically thinking of the fuse (and also the wiring in the walls).  :D

I take it that a 110V/30A circuit is not normally available to people?  How are domestic cookers/ovens wired in the US?
Jack,

Effeuno P134H (1700W upper element), EGO 500C Thermostat (upper), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Sacorosso, Mutti Pelati Bio.

Offline Wario

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Re: Which electric oven for Neapolitan?
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2020, 04:12:19 PM »
I wouldn't want to recommend importing a European oven for use in the States.  My post was just a reaction to the statement "There are no 220v electric ovens that I know of that both reach NP temps and are of a size and type that they could be considered "home" ovens."

AFAIK there are a few more brands than Effeuno available over here.  Effeuno does occasionally sell the above linked oven with 500C thermostats, and they have other models available like the Gara which comes with 550C thermostats or electronic controls (PID).

My P134H used to do Neapolitan in 80-90 seconds with a 450C thermostat, after changing it to a 500C it does it in just about 60 seconds.  Note that it's security thermostat cuts at around 561C.

I think it's probably hard (or impossible) to build a 110V oven that reaches these kind of temperatures.  Maybe a good alternative in the states is to look for a small gas fired oven?  From my limited experience of cooking in gas fired ovens, it's a really nice option.
I am from the north of Holland (Frozenlands) so i guess the Effeuno P134H is my best pick. Neapolitan pizza's ready in 80-90 seconds is certainly good enough for now and this is possible without any mods if i am correct?

Offline amolapizza

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Re: Which electric oven for Neapolitan?
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2020, 05:03:04 PM »
If you want to cook at 450-460C on the deck, then you'd also want a so called biscotto.  It's a lower conductivity stone and needed to not burn the bottom at such high temperatures.  The normal refractory stone is good for up to 300-350C or so.

Have a look at this link, it's a christmas promotion but seems to still be valid.  It gives you both the oven and the biscotto: https://www.gastrovens.com/en/pizza-lovers-ovens/55-p134h-raschietto-pala-promo-natale.html  When I bough mine a few years ago the transport was about 100E to Luxembourg.  The digital timer was an external cheap plastic timer though ???

They have other models, but this one isn't too expensive.  What I'd really want is the Gara, but it's a lot more expensive..  I've seen a video from last year with this style of oven but with digital controls.  It's supposed to come out this year, don't know what it'll cost though..  Still this is the cheaper line of pizza ovens, so maybe not much more than the model with thermostats.

With a 450C thermostat the oven will cook 80-90s pies, I changed my upper thermostat for a 500C one, and now it can do 60s :)

I think that this is probably one of the better choices for us Europeans.  IMO not as good as a wood or gas fired oven, but that you can use it indoors and that it's electric are attractive characteristics..!
Jack,

Effeuno P134H (1700W upper element), EGO 500C Thermostat (upper), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Sacorosso, Mutti Pelati Bio.

Offline megan45

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Re: Which electric oven for Neapolitan?
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2020, 08:00:35 PM »
Yeah, I was specifically thinking of the fuse (and also the wiring in the walls).  :D

I take it that a 110V/30A circuit is not normally available to people?  How are domestic cookers/ovens wired in the US?

Most household circuits are 110v/15A or 120v/20A, but some applications, like electric clothes dryers and hot water heaters require 240v/30A. Electric ovens typically requre 120v/20 amps, but cooktops require 240v/35-50A, so if you have a combined unit, aka "stove" or "range," it's typically wired for 240v/50A.

110v/30A single pole breakers run about $5 on Amazon and at big box home improvement stores. As long as your wiring is appropriately sized (10ga copper/8ga aluminum, minimum) for the circuit, installing it is trivial.

Offline champignon

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Re: Which electric oven for Neapolitan?
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2020, 11:37:10 PM »
Most household circuits are 110v/15A or 120v/20A, but some applications, like electric clothes dryers and hot water heaters require 240v/30A. Electric ovens typically requre 120v/20 amps, but cooktops require 240v/35-50A, so if you have a combined unit, aka "stove" or "range," it's typically wired for 240v/50A.

110v/30A single pole breakers run about $5 on Amazon and at big box home improvement stores. As long as your wiring is appropriately sized (10ga copper/8ga aluminum, minimum) for the circuit, installing it is trivial.

I don't think that very many people in North America have 10 gauge wire running through their walls on 110v circuits . . . . . . .

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Offline typicalsam

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Re: Which electric oven for Neapolitan?
« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2020, 07:10:37 PM »
I did change one of the thermostats in my oven from 450C to 500C, it reduced the minimum cooking time from about 80-90 seconds to about 60 seconds.  It wasn't a lot of work, but of course it voids the warranty..

There is also a very easy and reversible adjustment you can make to the p134h which several people have found will reach 500c. I've seen several people claim the internals are identical between the standard and 500c special edition



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Offline amolapizza

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Re: Which electric oven for Neapolitan?
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2020, 07:42:37 AM »
Yes, recalibrating the thermostat like that ought to work too.  I've also seen comments saying that the 500C and 450C aren't exactly the same, that the 500C factory version has more isolation, etc.  Not sure if that's true or not.

There have been some comments saying that recalibrating the thermostat like that might damage the thermostat itself, not sure if there is any truth to that either.

I've also read comments over the years that the thermostats are somewhat delicate and that they should never be put to 0 while the oven is hot.  Supposedly the increased internal pressure can make them burst.  Not sure if that's been fixed or is still an issue.  I've occasionally seen people posting about broken thermostats, but normally it's easily replaced and I've only seen it posted 2-3 times which probably is a good sign :)

Personally I wanted to upgrade my oven with a stronger upper resistance, PID controllers, etc.  But I think I'm going to buy the new version that comes out later this year with electronic controls instead of thermostats.  This would also give me differently shaped and more powerful upper/lower element. Mine is an older model, but the design of the oven does steadily get improved as the years pass by.  Better door, more powerful heating elements, a better light, etc.  Question being do I sell my old one, or keep it as a backup..

Jack,

Effeuno P134H (1700W upper element), EGO 500C Thermostat (upper), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Sacorosso, Mutti Pelati Bio.

Offline bifi85

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Re: Which electric oven for Neapolitan?
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2020, 04:46:34 PM »
If price doesn't matter. You should go with the P134 GARA TRON (standard power or extra power).
It is the newest oven from Effeuno and goes over 550C [1022F].
The oven achieves 500C [1932F] in ca. 23 min. and has currently the best isolation.
The price is with ca. 1500-1900 ridiculous high.

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