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Author Topic: Is cold proofing Sourdough any use?  (Read 510 times)

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Offline MrX

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Is cold proofing Sourdough any use?
« on: July 15, 2020, 07:02:06 PM »
I am moderately experienced when making sourdough pizza, but have not cold proofed either a preferment nor a bulk ferment. I know that cold proofing is popular to give a better flavor, but isn't that just adding more sourdough flavor? If it is, then it wouldn't be any use to cold proof as I am already using a sourdough starter to make my pizza which provides a sourdough flavor. Thoughts?

Offline Quebert

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Re: Is cold proofing Sourdough any use?
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2020, 08:56:10 PM »
I am moderately experienced when making sourdough pizza, but have not cold proofed either a preferment nor a bulk ferment. I know that cold proofing is popular to give a better flavor, but isn't that just adding more sourdough flavor? If it is, then it wouldn't be any use to cold proof as I am already using a sourdough starter to make my pizza which provides a sourdough flavor. Thoughts?

Not a starter expert, but I know people on here have said starter to starter the sourness will be different. I just made my 1st 2 batches of starter pizzas over the last 2 weeks. 1st was a 48h CT, it was good. 2nd was 72h CT, it was fantastic.  I'm making dough as we speak for another 72h CT starter batch. Due to variations in starters you just gotta try for yourself, but my pizza with starter + a 3 day cold ferment is like beyond words good. The one I made today:


58% hydration
2.3% salt
2.5% oil
2.5% sugar
177g starter

This was with 597g of high gluten flour

Last batch I made 5 people pizzas, 3 said they really liked the crust and could taste the sourdough and it was good.  The other 2, one's 5 and the other eats anything so no need to get his opinion lol.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2020, 08:59:24 PM by Quebert »

Offline jsaras

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Re: Is cold proofing Sourdough any use?
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2020, 10:06:17 PM »
Im of the school that thinks putting a naturally leavened dough into a refrigerator is a fundamental mistake. 
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Offline scott r

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Re: Is cold proofing Sourdough any use?
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2020, 11:09:37 PM »
I know its a popular opinion on here that wild yeast is best room temp only.  Im not saying that I think (or know) that its better to go in the fridge with sourdough, but the more time I spend trying food around the country and experimenting on my own, the more im starting to think that there are just so many different ways to end up with amazing pizza.

You cant deny Tartine and Razzas quality and they both cold ferment sourdough.  Obviously Chads bread is incredible and if you ever get a chance to try Dans pizza I think Razza might really surprise you. He makes my favorite crust, and I have been to a LOT of famous pizzerias.  Super light fluffy with a crispy outer shell and not too tangy at all.   I also know of a highly respected well reviewed destination pizzeria using only wild yeast and a multi day fridge ferment. I don't want to expose who it is because they have never talked about it publicly that I know of, but I know lots of people that love the pizza there.  Its MULTI day, like sometimes 5 days with 100% sourdough.  While cold fermented sourdough might not be ideal for everyone, it definitely can be made to work and produce a great product. 

Im starting to think that fridge, no fridge, wild yeast, fresh yeast can all be manipulated to give an A+ final product, but you have to do certain things differently in each situation.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2020, 11:33:24 PM by scott r »

Offline Pizza_Not_War

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Re: Is cold proofing Sourdough any use?
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2020, 11:24:25 PM »
 I've found the best temps to be in the 50's. But I mostly do 3-5 day refrigerator SD ferments. As Scott says there are many ways to get it done. None of them is particularly the "right" way.

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Offline jsobolew

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Re: Is cold proofing Sourdough any use?
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2020, 11:45:53 PM »
Personally, I have tried a lot of different methods with sourdough and what I prefer to do is partial room temp AND cold proof. I've found that my room temp fermented dough had a very subtle flavor which some people might like but I didn't really understand the extra effort in doing sourdough without much payback in flavor. What I do is use around 5-10% sourdough per flour weight, several rounds of stretch and folds (this made a big difference for me, gluten did not develop without this step) and watch it a room temp until it looks done. Basically if I can see some bubbles forming at the bottom, that is enough. Then I place in the fridge for 1-2 days. The fridge time is essential to bring out the tangy flavor that I like. The more time in the fridge, the more tang. Then I remove about 2 hours before baking which gives it a little more rise. I think the flavor with this technique is really extraordinary but everyone has their own preferences.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2020, 03:36:41 PM by jsobolew »

Offline MrX

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Re: Is cold proofing Sourdough any use?
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2020, 02:41:42 AM »
Thanks everyone, I've got a lot of experimenting to do.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2020, 02:46:04 AM by MrX »

Offline MrX

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Re: Is cold proofing Sourdough any use?
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2020, 02:43:41 AM »
I've found that my room temp fermented dough had a very subtle flavor which some people might like but I didn't really understand the extra effort in doing sourdough without much payback in flavor.

Thanks, I'll have to test out if cold proofing increases the sour flavor and what my family prefers.

Offline HansB

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Re: Is cold proofing Sourdough any use?
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2020, 07:05:21 AM »
Thanks, I'll have to test out if cold proofing increases the sour flavor and what my family prefers.

I'm with those above. I CF my SD bread between 12-36 hours at 39F, I have done the same with SD pizza dough with good results. Although I don't notice any more sourness with increased CF time.

X, I have found that I can increase the sourness of my starter by keeping it at a lower temperature, using some rye, or feeding it less often.
Hans

Offline Quebert

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Re: Is cold proofing Sourdough any use?
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2020, 08:16:45 AM »
Thanks, I'll have to test out if cold proofing increases the sour flavor and what my family prefers.

I don't have the means to RT at a temp where I can ferment for a day or 2, I'd love to try a 40h 60d RT. I will say with both CT I've done there was noticeable sourness.  The 72h one was almost perfection to me. Perhaps though a 24h RT @ 60f would give you the same results.  If you have the setup where you could RT for a longer period I'd love to hear your feedback.

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Offline Pizza_Not_War

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Re: Is cold proofing Sourdough any use?
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2020, 10:39:44 AM »
I don't have the means to RT at a temp where I can ferment for a day or 2, I'd love to try a 40h 60d RT. I will say with both CT I've done there was noticeable sourness.  The 72h one was almost perfection to me. Perhaps though a 24h RT @ 60f would give you the same results.  If you have the setup where you could RT for a longer period I'd love to hear your feedback.
https://www.koolatron.com/US/en/koolatron-coolers

Offline ochsavidare

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Re: Is cold proofing Sourdough any use?
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2020, 12:37:29 PM »
Since there are two processes going on in a sourdough bake, production of lactic acid by the lactic acid bacteria and production of carbon dioxide by the yeast, the equilibrium of these processes might shift if you change the temperature. This might give you e.g. a more acidic result when you cold ferment. But it all also depends on your own starter, of course.

Offline MrX

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Re: Is cold proofing Sourdough any use?
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2020, 03:45:55 PM »
I don't have the means to RT at a temp where I can ferment for a day or 2, I'd love to try a 40h 60d RT.

If you have the setup where you could RT for a longer period I'd love to hear your feedback.

Unfortunately I'm unable to achieve 60f temperatures right now, but might look into a cooler like Pizza_Not_War suggested in the distant future.
Also, by "RT" do you mean "Room Temperature"  and "CT" possibly "Cold Temperature"? I'm very new to the forum so I'm a bit unaware of the shorthand.

Offline HansB

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Re: Is cold proofing Sourdough any use?
« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2020, 03:56:01 PM »
Unfortunately I'm unable to achieve 60f temperatures right now, but might look into a cooler like Pizza_Not_War suggested in the distant future.
Also, by "RT" do you mean "Room Temperature"  and "CT" possibly "Cold Temperature"? I'm very new to the forum so I'm a bit unaware of the shorthand.

Here on the forum RT and CF mean Room Temp and Cold Ferment.
Hans

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Is cold proofing Sourdough any use?
« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2020, 04:12:17 PM »

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Offline MrX

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Re: Is cold proofing Sourdough any use?
« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2020, 02:38:11 AM »
Thanks a lot

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