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Author Topic: New York Style Bake Time  (Read 286 times)

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Offline Barbarossa

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New York Style Bake Time
« on: May 21, 2020, 11:53:53 PM »
Hi folks! I just ordered an oven that can get up to 700F.
Assuming I use the Lehmann New York Style and dough recipe, what would I need to do to get a 3-5 minute bake time will still achieving a nice thin crust with a good amount of crunch? Are there adjustments  to oven temperature and formulation that I should be working on?

Offline Quebert

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Re: New York Style Bake Time
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2020, 02:57:38 AM »
I am far from an expert here, but in the month I've had my Koda I've made probably 25 NY style pizzas in it. IMHO 700's a bit too high you'll get a really dark crust and the bottom will still be soft, similar to a Neapolitan. Not a bad thing if that's what you're after. But to me a NY pizza should have more bite in the bottom. I heat my floor to about 700, then dial the temp down to 600'ish. I don't time it exactly, but it's about 5 - 5 1/2 minutes and I have a good bake color wise, and the bottom's a bit firmer than when I tried the cooked the same dough at a higher temp. From what I've learned on here, the higher the temp the softer the bottom will be there's no way around that. I think a lot of actual pizza spots in NY cook at around 550.  I use the same dough recipe you made, I've been playing with the hydration to see the differences. It's a very good recipe and very makes dough even I can easily stretch.  I would be curious to hear from some experts here, I can't get a proper NY bake in 3 minutes, I've tried, but maybe I'm just not doing something right. Like I said I'm 25 pizzas in, so I'm definitely still a beginner.

I use 180-190g balls and get a pretty thin crust on my 10"


Offline Barbarossa

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Re: New York Style Bake Time
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2020, 05:20:11 AM »
Thanks for the reply, Quebert. Yes, I have read about the lower temps and longer bake times for NY pies. Now makes me wonder if price for the extra oven horsepower is worth paying if it wonít allow me to do a faster bake without altering the integrity of the pie (especially the crispy/crunchy crust which is very important to me). Hope other folks can weigh in before I pull the trigger on a downgrade. Thanks much!

Offline Quebert

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Re: New York Style Bake Time
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2020, 05:49:39 AM »
Thanks for the reply, Quebert. Yes, I have read about the lower temps and longer bake times for NY pies. Now makes me wonder if price for the extra oven horsepower is worth paying if it wonít allow me to do a faster bake without altering the integrity of the pie (especially the crispy/crunchy crust which is very important to me). Hope other folks can weigh in before I pull the trigger on a downgrade. Thanks much!

The consensus here's a home oven with a baking steel's great for NY style pizza.  I don't know what kind of oven you bought, but in a regular kitchen oven people recommend to preheat it for like an hour to get a stone or baking steel up to temp and the oven walls hot enough to cook a NY pizza properly. In my Koda the stone's up to 700 after around 15 minutes.   In the time I save waiting for my home oven to get up up to temp. I can make a pizza in my Koda and have eaten the entire thing, and still have a few minutes left over lol.  Or, I could make 6 pizzas for everyone around me.




Offline scott r

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Re: New York Style Bake Time
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2020, 08:56:12 AM »
Quberts advice is all spot on if you ask me.    One thing I wanted to add is that it is really nice to be able to make many styles of pizza once you have been at this hobby for a while.    Yes, you should be able to make a great NY style pizza in your home oven (I think with many ovens you do not even need the steel for a NY style and you just need a stone), but you might really like that you can also make coal oven style pizza, the first cousin (or big brother?) to NY style.   

Bake times for NY style pizza are one of the highly debated topics on this forum, but in my eyes a classic NY style pizza was never faster than 5 minutes (usually more like 8 minutes) and is baked in a gas deck oven. I haven't seen many gas deck ovens that can bake faster unless the pies are pulled with very little color.   In the past 8 years high temp electric ovens are starting to show up and blur the lines a bit, but before that the pizzas in NY that were baked faster than 5 minutes were done with coal ovens.  The fastest coal oven in NY I have timed was at the Harlem patsy's location and that was a 3.5 minute bake time.

I think eventually you may be very happy that you can make a 5-6 minute NY style, and a 3.5-4.5 minute coal oven style NY pizza in your oven.

Also, back to your original post... if you are looking or more crunch and you dont want to increase your bake time make sure you are using a fairly wet dough (somewhere in the 60's), and do not use oil or sugar in your recipe.

Good luck, keep experimenting, and have fun!
« Last Edit: May 22, 2020, 08:59:15 AM by scott r »

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Offline Barbarossa

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Re: New York Style Bake Time
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2020, 09:09:24 AM »
Thanks for the suggestions Quebert and Scottr. Iím intrigued by the coal fired pizza. I have never tasted any yet but from the videos on YouTube, I had assumed that they all fell under the New York style genre.
Is it very different? After seeing your note, Scott, I read up the info thatís available in this forum but all the posts seem to presume a familiarity with the profile of this style. The only cues are visual and those can be quite misleading.
How would you describe coal-style to someone who has never had it before?

Offline scott r

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Re: New York Style Bake Time
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2020, 09:55:34 AM »
There is a wide range of bake times with coal ovens due to their design and the lag time involved with adding fuel to the fire.  With a wood burning oven the effect of adding more fuel is almost immediate, but this is not the case with coal.  Many of the NY coal ovens hover in the 4 minute range, but many go a little faster or quite a bit slower at times.  The most variable ovens are the massive ones at Frank Pepe's where I have timed bakes from 5 minutes all the way up to more than 10 minutes.  Unfortunately this variability in bake times can give you a different pie on one visit than another so makes it difficult to pinpoint, as it is the bake time that makes the most difference in the pizza.  Of course your dough recipe will contribute a lot to the final outcome.  Some coal spots use oil, some use a wetter dough, etc. Because of this lets assume that you have the same dough recipe and you bake your pizza at 4 minutes (simulating coal temps) and 8 minutes (simulating ny deck oven temps). 

The faster bake will give you a pizza that is less crisp.  It will give you a lighter airier crust due to the increased oven spring, and it will give you more char (which adds flavor).   The faster bake also has an effect on toppings.  Just as the dough will dry out less, the toppings will too, and the flavor of a less cooked sauce is im sure familiar to everyone.. it is fresher and tastes more like a tomato rather than a sunday ragu.  That follows with all the toppings... cheese has a different flavor when melted fast, vegetable toppings are more fresh tasting, and meat toppings are generally more moist. 

Some things about the slower bake are better in my eyes. I like what it does to aged mozzarella, and pepperoni for example.  Also the faster the pizza is baked the more it tends to get tough after cooling.  Thats why some Neapolitan pizzerias dont even offer take out. 
« Last Edit: May 23, 2020, 10:44:35 AM by scott r »

Offline Barbarossa

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Re: New York Style Bake Time
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2020, 08:48:07 PM »
Thanks for the insightful reply Scottr!

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