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Author Topic: Next Best to a Pizza Party Passione?  (Read 5021 times)

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Offline Jackitup

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Re: Next Best to a Pizza Party Passione?
« Reply #40 on: November 07, 2020, 10:19:27 PM »
I know Simone from Pizza Party has said many times NOT to use both at the same time. But I see no problem using gas for heat up then turning off and finishing with wood. Or heat up with a good weed burner and then going to wood if one wanted.
Now that being said, I  have a 25 cu ft capacity gas assist smoker, that is thermostatically controlled regulator, that has a gas burner under a stainless steel hotel pan holding wood chunks to supply smoke and heat once ignited. The gas burner kicks on and off to the desired heat setting and has a pilot light. It has never snuffed out creating any hazard at all and runs like a clock. I have also slow roasted meat in my Passione using the gas burner for heat and some wood in a smoker box without problem, but kept a keen eye on things knowing Simone advised against it, citing that the smoke created could snuff out the flame creating an explosion potential with the gas still flowing! He could explain his reasoning better than me, but that's the gist of it from what I got! Not endorsing nor condemning using them at the same time, just my experience.
Jon

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Offline Pandasbecats

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Re: Next Best to a Pizza Party Passione?
« Reply #41 on: November 09, 2020, 11:44:16 PM »
@jackitup Makes sense. That's why I always leave my oven door cracked open when using gas. Have had the flame go out on my burner but it might be the regulator's excess flow protection when I think about it
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Offline halfprice

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Re: Next Best to a Pizza Party Passione?
« Reply #42 on: November 10, 2020, 11:14:02 AM »
If i read your posts correctly It seems you guys are using the regulator to control the flame. Have you thought about putting a gas valve in line close to the venturi so you can raise lower the flame without messing with the regulator

Jerry

Offline Pandasbecats

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Re: Next Best to a Pizza Party Passione?
« Reply #43 on: November 12, 2020, 02:35:35 PM »
@halfprice I do have a gas valve, but took it out. It stuck out enough from the oven front that things hit it and I prefer controlling from the regulator.

Don't know if the regulator being high pressure vs. the low pressure Bollore/Passione one makes a difference.
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Offline prop

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Re: Next Best to a Pizza Party Passione?
« Reply #44 on: November 13, 2020, 04:48:47 PM »
hey guys need some help.i hardly getting any pressure in my pipe .i tried 2 different regulators and still no luck.i got a venturi valve  and reg from tejas smoker , and another reg from home depot.do i need to drill the orifice out or something?thanks for any help.

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Offline Pandasbecats

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Re: Next Best to a Pizza Party Passione?
« Reply #45 on: November 13, 2020, 04:58:55 PM »
Could be a couple things:

1. Is the brass piece to the venturi too tight? When the brass piece on my venturi got too tight not the gas holes got misaligned and the gas didn’t shoot out correctly

2. How long is your burner? What size is the pipe?

3. What type of regulator? I used a high pressure 10 psi one for mine. The tejas smokers guys reccomended high pressure for the pizza party oven

4. The orifice size shouldn’t matter much if it’s high pressure tk my knowledge. Low pressure will be different
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Offline prop

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Re: Next Best to a Pizza Party Passione?
« Reply #46 on: November 14, 2020, 07:42:52 AM »
burner is 4 ft, 1 inch pipe
i believe the reg is 10 psi and i tried 2 different regs
i will try loosening the brass fitting

Offline Pandasbecats

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Re: Next Best to a Pizza Party Passione?
« Reply #47 on: November 14, 2020, 03:08:44 PM »
Your burner is a lot longer than the one ones in this thread. The one for my oven is only 21 inches.

Your burner is twice as long and you’re heating a brick oven. You’ll probably need to size all your materials up (Venturi, pipe, etc.) if the regulators don’t work
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Offline jsobolew

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Re: Next Best to a Pizza Party Passione?
« Reply #48 on: December 04, 2020, 04:53:55 PM »
First off, thanks to our pioneers in this thread for providing such great info for us to work off of. I'm considering either getting a Maximus or inFornino oven and installing a pipe burner like these. I do a NY/Neo hybrid pizza in the Ooni Pro I have now with a floor temp around 700f. It's pretty difficult to get the temp to stay in this range because the gas burner wants to go much hotter and there is a hairline difference between full flame and no flame on the gas control. It seems like this may be a similar issue with these pipe burners as they are so powerful, they can overheat the oven easily. Is it possible to make less slits in the pipe and perhaps space them out more to have less flame and more control?

Offline Pandasbecats

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Re: Next Best to a Pizza Party Passione?
« Reply #49 on: December 04, 2020, 09:11:15 PM »
@jsobolew Don't believe that the slit number/width would affect burner control. It's more about experience with the controls themselves over anything.

There's a continuous range of flame to work with since everything's controlled by the regulator dial and venturi air flow. Unlike the Ooni pro, bollore/passione, and Zio ciro ovens which have discrete settings (High, low, off). Burning bottoms is the main problem I have so far while working two pizzas at a time. Probably because I turn the flame higher during pizza switches so the air temp stays the same, forget to track floor temp sometimes.
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Offline JeffShoaf

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Re: Next Best to a Pizza Party Passione?
« Reply #50 on: December 04, 2020, 09:25:28 PM »
There's a continuous range of flame to work with since everything's controlled by the regulator dial and venturi air flow. Unlike the Ooni pro, bollore/passione, and Zio ciro ovens which have discrete settings (High, low, off).

The bollore and Passione are continuously adjustable between low and high flame.

Offline jsobolew

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Re: Next Best to a Pizza Party Passione?
« Reply #51 on: December 04, 2020, 10:14:41 PM »
Pandasbecats- I see what you are saying and I get that the slits are not what give you the control. What I am thinking is that the more slits, the more flame, and more heat. An extreme example would be if you just has one single slit, it would probably be hard to get the oven into operating temp. Once you start adding more, you would have more flame and more heat. Does this make any sense? I'm just thinking of ways to get it to run at a lower temp without overheating by reducing the amount of flame and gas burning.

Offline Pandasbecats

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Re: Next Best to a Pizza Party Passione?
« Reply #52 on: December 04, 2020, 11:16:01 PM »
@jsoblew Understand what you're saying, fewer slits should lower the maximum potential output yes. However, you could also just leave the flame low like I did for a pic included below. This flame would be too low to keep the oven at 700 even with only occasional door openings.

The opposite to what @smtdev got also happens. The oven cools down quickly as the door comes off more often when making a lot of pizzas. This happened to me when I was holding a 30 pie event a month or two ago: the air temp would drop but the floor temp would stay the same which increased the chance of a burnt bottom. Oven temperatures getting too high usually happens when you aren't looking at the burner as much and are more leisurely making one pizza at a time.
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Offline jsobolew

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Re: Next Best to a Pizza Party Passione?
« Reply #53 on: December 05, 2020, 03:50:32 PM »
Thanks for the reply. Have you considered closing off the chimney? I'm not sure if the pizza party has an adjustable damper or not but that might help keep the hot air in while having to open and close the door repeatedly. I don't think it actually needs the air flow since the venturi is outside the oven, right?

Offline Pandasbecats

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Re: Next Best to a Pizza Party Passione?
« Reply #54 on: December 06, 2020, 10:46:00 PM »
@jsobolew The pizza party oven does have an adjustable chimney and yes I do adjust it depending on temp needed. The chimney does not close fully though. I keep the door cracked open when using the pipe burner. Have read the Pizza Party people say on these forums that there should be an escape in case any gases go unburned from incomplete combustion.

Had a smaller 20-pizza event today for family with some neighbors buying. Wished I used the pipe burner but already advertised wood. The fire is much harder to keep when making more pizzas in shorter amounts of time.

@JeffShoaf My bad on the bollore/passione burners. Was going off of the videos I had watched.
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Offline smtdev

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Re: Next Best to a Pizza Party Passione?
« Reply #55 on: December 13, 2020, 04:03:13 PM »
I ended up trying another burner method. When I was gathering parts, I went ahead and bought the Tejas 160K BTU burner at the same time I bought the venturi. While I have been happy with the pipe burner, I really just wanted to see what difference there would be.

I swapped out the regulator for a 20 psi adjustable one and plumbed the black pipe to run the burner at the middle in the back of the oven. There's a fair amount of yellow flame or at least more than I was expecting. I don't think it's a bad thing necessarily. When I really open up the regulator, the blue flame increases as well as the yellow. I didn't really even crank it all up that much and got some good heat out of it.

It took about a 1/2 hour to come to temp in pouring rain at 52 degrees. The dome obviously heats quickly and the floor gets to about 300 fairly quickly and then slowly to 850-ish by that 30 minutes. Not surprisingly the floor closest to the burner is about 100 degrees warmer than say closest to the door. This was only a short test so I have yet to figure out if this is too much burner for this oven. I would think it would be an ideal setup for a masonry oven.


Offline Pandasbecats

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Re: Next Best to a Pizza Party Passione?
« Reply #56 on: December 13, 2020, 07:37:36 PM »
@smtdev Very interesting setup, thanks for the share
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Offline smtdev

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Re: Next Best to a Pizza Party Passione?
« Reply #57 on: December 15, 2020, 01:29:33 PM »
UPDATE: I ended up taking the burner assembly apart and set it up with just a 7" nipple going into the burner and the difference was night and day. Lots of flame adjustment and almost no yellow flame. Clearly my setup was starving of air. You can read the following that I wrote earlier today, but the optimum setup would be to drill a hole in the back of the oven and run the gas through a very short pipe run. So, I'm going back to the pipe burner for now.

=======

Did a short bake last night with the big burner and aside from normal learning curve issues, it really is kind of a nice setup. There could be improvements although it would involve further modifications to the oven, which I'm not ready to do just yet.

Pros
Big flame - The burner has a good blue jet that turns into yellow rolling flames that roll across the dome. You can turn it down between bakes, but I found that you want to crank the burner up a bit when you launch.
Predictable heat zones - Positioning pizza closer to burner (and/or rolling flame) results in faster cooking, pull back for a bit slower bake. Felt more like wood fire in that respect. The pipe burner was pushing heat across a larger area and a bit less predictable where hot spots lie.
Larger working area - Although the pipe runs down one one side and along the back, it's raised so it doesn't block the floor. That really leaves only the area the burner takes up leaving a large area to work with. You could easily cook 2-3 pizzas if you had your $#@! together (I don't) and kept them moving.

Cons
Not much low end control - I think this is a byproduct of the long runs of pipe, but there isn't much control on the lower end of the gas flow. The burner blows itself out before you can turn down the flame. Not a huge deal, but if you are using the oven to bake bread or other lower temp foods, this ain't the burner for you.
Burner adjustment is key - I got up to nearly 1200 degree dome and 900 floor leaving the higher flame and door on. You really need to turn it down in between bakes and crank it up when you launch. When you do that it is pretty predictable.
Lighting dangers - The burner is at the back of the oven so lighting, even with a long lighter, could be dicey depending on the circumstances. I had lit it initially and then lowered the flame too much and it snuffed out. Then couldn't get it lit right away and suddenly realized I'm reaching into an enclosed space filled with gas...Not to mention the flame going out when you have a 1000 degree oven. Time to don the welding gloves.

As mentioned above, the pipe run amounts to about 22" on the initial run, a 90, then another 8". I think you could get more adjustability out of the flame and a more efficient flame if you could shorten that run. I think a hole in the back corner, a 90, then 7 or 8" nipple, and it would likely give you more control over that air/gas mixture. I'm not quite ready to drill into mine yet.

Sorry for the bad pic. It is a frame grab from a phone video taken through the door glass, yada yada. I can take a better picture of the flame characteristics if anyone is interested.

« Last Edit: December 15, 2020, 04:21:11 PM by smtdev »

Offline Pandasbecats

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Re: Next Best to a Pizza Party Passione?
« Reply #58 on: December 25, 2020, 12:30:56 AM »
Those are some pretty dangerous cons .... Even with the excess flow protection from the regulatorx, could imagine a high gas buildup. Guess that's one of the advantages the lower power bollore and passions burners had with their thermocouples included.

Curious to see how people could set this up in masonry ovens. Potentially from the bottom like the Zoo Ciro ones? Someone in this thread mentioned something. For now I'm very happy with the pipe burner and gas is now my go-to for cooking pizzas. Will use wood when it comes to roasting vegetables and meats for smoky flavor.

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Offline smtdev

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Re: Next Best to a Pizza Party Passione?
« Reply #59 on: February 04, 2021, 06:56:57 PM »
So, just a follow-up on the jet burner. I played around with a lot of other configurations, mainly adjusting the pipe length for optimum gas/air mixture while moving the burner itself from the (left) front to back corner and everywhere in between.

After a lot of trial and error, the best compromise was a little beyond the halfway point along the left side. I had a 90 and then close nipple to the burner so it came out from the side wall by an inch or so. I had a strong blue flame with yellow tips and could crank it up quite a bit. I really preferred the back corner as it gave me a lot more floor space, but was right at the limit for pipe length. By finding the sweet spot, I really got the best performance out of the burner and eliminated air starvation.

I really liked the idea of this burner as I gained more usable floor space and had a lot more control during the pizza bake (compared with wood or the pipe burner) and felt I could cook two pizzas at a time more confidently by rotating them and moving closer/further to the flame.

HOWEVER in the end, that burner is just too much for the oven. That design with 2/3 or even 1/2 the BTU would be a better solution. Instead running the burner where it needed to be was pushing the limits of the PP oven. Yes, I got good saturation but it was hard to roll it back once it reached optimum temperature.

Anyway, I felt I tested well enough and ultimately the pipe burner is the best solution when I opt for gas. I think this thread already proved that, but for those stubborn tinkerers like myself who are certain there's ALWAYS a better way, hopefully this helps to save time/effort.

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