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Author Topic: What do you think about foodpairing?  (Read 336 times)

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Offline skan

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What do you think about foodpairing?
« on: June 03, 2020, 09:00:38 PM »
I've heard about this term on TV cooking shows.
It is a relatively new method supposed to be useful for identifying which foods go well together from a flavor standpoint.
The method is based on the principle that foods combine well with one another when they share the same major flavor components. It uses chemical analysis to find them.

I've been googleing and found that most information is not free, you need to buy books or pay to use online databases.

Is it worth it?
Does it work well or is it just fake?

Is there any good book on food pairing?

For example...
https://www.amazon.es/dp/0544809963/?tag=pmak-20
https://www.amazon.es/dp/B07Q22Z8TK/?tag=pmak-20
« Last Edit: June 03, 2020, 09:12:09 PM by skan »

Offline Yael

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Re: What do you think about foodpairing?
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2020, 10:42:01 PM »
I think it's very interesting, and if you want to open a 3-stars restaurant-pizzeria maybe you should invest to know more, even having a class.
A good friend of mine, who is a great chef (he worked in high standing restaurants in Paris where they served the Emperor of Japan for example!! He has the picture), says "you can blend anything you want. All is a question of balance and quantities".
I guess he's not the first one to say this, but I totally agree. I don't have enough knowledge on the subject, and sometimes it's very frustrating because I think I would be very creative! Always have thousands of ideas but none of them come through  :-D (maybe when my career is steady I'll study that more!)
“Learn the rules like a pro so you can break them like an artist” - Pablo Picasso

Offline enchant

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Re: What do you think about foodpairing?
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2020, 05:46:33 AM »
.
--pat--

Offline skan

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Re: What do you think about foodpairing?
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2020, 12:19:09 PM »
I think it's very interesting, and if you want to open a 3-stars restaurant-pizzeria maybe you should invest to know more, even having a class.
A good friend of mine, who is a great chef (he worked in high standing restaurants in Paris where they served the Emperor of Japan for example!! He has the picture), says "you can blend anything you want. All is a question of balance and quantities".
I guess he's not the first one to say this, but I totally agree. I don't have enough knowledge on the subject, and sometimes it's very frustrating because I think I would be very creative! Always have thousands of ideas but none of them come through  :-D (maybe when my career is steady I'll study that more!)

I'm just a food lover and always want to learn new things.

Offline Pizza_Not_War

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Re: What do you think about foodpairing?
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2020, 12:54:01 PM »
Food pairing is just another marketing scheme. Nobody can discern your particular taste buds. However many food companies have found the formulas to appeal to a wide audience and tweak all sorts of food to be addictive. See - snack chips, etc. I used to eat various chips till they were gone for no reason other than the crap they put in it to make me do so.

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Offline artaxares

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Re: What do you think about foodpairing?
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2020, 02:08:33 AM »
Food pairing doesn't have to be a marketing scheme, when we put mozzarella+cheese+basil on our pizzas - that's food pairing. Of course there will be bunch of fancy-scientific-sounding useless stuff around but there are certainly some food combinations that we find more palatable than others.
Since we're talking about books this one to me is great:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/0316118400/?tag=pmak-20
You can check user images and preview, it is basically book of ingredients that highlights which ingredients go well with some other ingredients. I use it all the time for recipe ideas because it tells you which spices go well with some specific vegetable etc, it can be rather useful. But the book itself is rather list-table based, it is basically for reference use.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004G8QZTC/?tag=pmak-20
This one is also pretty ok, it has pairings, recipe ideas, it is more specific pairing-recipe oriented etc

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0756667305/?tag=pmak-20
Books like this are also super useful, basically has all the ingredients, flavors explained, how to buy, store and use, brilliant to use as a reference
 
I'm looking at "The flavor matrix" right now and to be honest I'd rather still go with some of the books above. This one is pretty similar, it has flavor pairings underlined in this "pairing wheel" format which looks fancy, and it has some fancy recipe ideas, like I'm looking at one right now and it's "Pan roast of turnips, apple, chicken and radishes with hazelnuts". That's a bit too specific and fancy-complicated for me. What I like is Apple - Cinnamon or Rosemary - Thyme, Tomato - Basil, Beans - Cumin, Garlic - Lemon those kinds of simple but strong recommendations and then go from there.

Online Quebert

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Re: What do you think about foodpairing?
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2020, 05:53:10 AM »
Food pairing is just another marketing scheme. Nobody can discern your particular taste buds. However many food companies have found the formulas to appeal to a wide audience and tweak all sorts of food to be addictive. See - snack chips, etc. I used to eat various chips till they were gone for no reason other than the crap they put in it to make me do so.

Things just go together, people like orange juice with their breakfast, it goes well with eggs or pancakes, not so much with a burger or ribs. Fries go with a burger, cole claw goes good with ribs. But it goes a lot deeper than what we commonly think about.  Chefs who really understand ingredients and their properties can create things I'd never imagine could work together.  Chocolate+PB and biscuits and gravy are 2 good examples of pairings that don't really make sense but damn if they're not both delicious. And left to my own vices I know I wouldn't have ever thought to cover bacon with brown sugar before I cooked it. Those 2 things in no way should be together, but after I read about it and tried it. I was 100% converted. Have you ever heard of someone who drinks milk with their pizza? I know I haven't, food pairing would be the reasoning. I'm sure there are some random people out there who love a slice with an ice cold glass of 2%, but it just sounds gross to most people.

Taste buds are unique, but many people share very similar likes food wise, and I'm not talking basic stuff, but things that shouldn't be good together. Go to the fair, the booth that sells bacon double cheese burgers with glazed donuts for buns will have a line long like a ride at Disneyland. How the hell does this work? WHY do I like it? WHY do so many other people like it?
« Last Edit: June 10, 2020, 06:01:02 AM by Quebert »

Offline skan

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Re: What do you think about foodpairing?
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2020, 06:52:42 AM »
My intention is to move from traditional flavors and combinations (from my country and also international) to new ingredients, spices and combinations that may seem strange but could work. Though I know I won't like all of them.

Offline Yael

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Re: What do you think about foodpairing?
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2020, 11:38:20 AM »
I often compare food pairing with other arts like music and paint, even with motor sports.
All these fields are "rule-free" with rules. I don't know how to explain, let me give some examples:
- in music, if you play randomly all the keys of a piano (black & white), the sound will be terrible. Yet, there are some musicians who don't follow the rules and seem to play randomly but the sound they make is terrific.
- in motor sports: rules are even more obvious. You want a big engine, you have to have a big exhaust. Then, depending on the ground you're racing, you'll need these or those tires, these or those suspensions...

Adding my own experience to all that, I came to the conclusion that you can do whatever you want if you know why you do it, hence my signature - Picasso definitely knew how to draw "normally".
And being in China this is a hot topic I often discuss with people. Chinese people tend to say that one has to adapt its food to its local taste (that would be the reason why Chinese restaurants abroad are not authentic, like Quebert's humorous remark at reply 8 https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=63320.0;topicseen). I say one doesn't have to, except for some extreme flavors or ingredients maybe (and you're not going to sell ham and bacon in a muslim country).

But let's go back to the initial subject: as I said above, you can do whatever you want if you know why you do it. The problem is that a lot of people don't. And when Chinese pizza makers make a pizza like this: dough, mayonnaise, mozzarella, fruits (apple, strawberry, dragon fruit...), and then mayonnaise again after baking  :'( :-X >:(
No, I'm sorry but I say no.
It's a triple problem: 1) fruit + mayonnaise; 2) mayonnaise + baking; 3) fruit (only) + mozzarella.
1) : in local restaurants, it's common to see a "fruit salad" paired with mayonnaise. I think they misunderstood mayonnaise with yogurt at the first place, when they weren't too many dairy products in the 90's.
2) : you don't bake a mayonnaise. It becomes oil, definitely awful.
3) : you can pair some blackberries or fig or raspberries with some blue cheese/hard cheese... But mozzarella?? And only mozzarella, no meat, no veggies... So you basically add sweet/sugar to a slightly salted cheese. The balance isn't right, it lacks something. Use mascarpone or ricotta, but not mozzarella.

And like this, Chinese newly converted to western cuisine make many mistakes, instead of cantaloupe they would add let's say... banana with prosciutto (just an example, I never actually saw this mistake ^^). I also realized that I made the same mistakes when I was making Chinese food before going there (I was abusively using any kind of soy sauces lol).
So you really have to know the background of the ingredients. Why they're often together.
Another example (before I go to bed): during a pizza competition, the guy made some shrimp-mushroom pizza. It didn't taste bad, but there was something wrong. Then here is how I analyzed it: shrimp is seafood. I think seafood, I think summer, fishing, beach... Although mushroom is a land product, so I think forest, mountain, rain, wild boar (pork meat more than seafood)... 2 different, if not opposite, concepts.
Of course, you can blend them: land and sea. That can be a great concept. But the participant who made the pizza didn't know why he made this pairing, so a link was missing. Even though the pizza wasn't bad, it wasn't good (enough).

All this is only my personal analyze, I know I don't know enough, and I know taste buds are different between the US and Europe (North American like adding sweet things on greasy and salty products  ;D ("to cover bacon with brown sugar"  ;D).
I just wanted to share it  :angel:
“Learn the rules like a pro so you can break them like an artist” - Pablo Picasso

Offline amolapizza

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Re: What do you think about foodpairing?
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2020, 01:53:51 PM »
I kind of like fat, salt and sweet!  With enough of it you could eat cardboard and it would taste nice! :D
Jack

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Offline parallei

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Re: What do you think about foodpairing?
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2020, 02:29:01 PM »
I kind of like fat, salt and sweet!  With enough of it you could eat cardboard and it would taste nice! :D

Jack - Then you would like these things! Some might consider Beer Nuts the perfect food....

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