How to Make New York Pizza Dough at Home by Chef Leo Spizzirri

[gbakay]

Here's a video you might enjoy on how to make New York Style pizza by Chef Leo Spizzirri from the North American Pizza and Culinary Academy.

[jsaras]

00 flour for home NY pizza?  I’ll take a hard pass on that.

[Pete-zza]

I actually liked the video and it is not because Leo recently became a member of this forum (https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=61317.msg611877#msg611877). I liked the video because Leo was so thorough in his instruction as how to make the dough. And judging from the comments section of the video, it looks like others liked the video for the same reason that I did.

As for the 00 flour, Leo did say that a higher gluten flour (around 14% protein) could also be a suitable flour. Also, Leo added about 11% fine semolina flour to the 00 flour, which would make the dough stronger and require a hydration value a bit above the rated absorption value of the 00 flour. Some years ago, when I was attempting to reverse engineer and clone a dough made by Papa Gino's in the northeast, and whose pizza was often likened to a NY style, I also used semolina flour (a coarser version than what Leo uses), together with a bread flour. As it turned out, I learned that PG did not in fact use semolina flour. But I learned from my experiments, and I nonetheless enjoyed the pizzas using the semolina flour. I summarized what I achieved at Reply 115 at:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=18407.msg181952;topicseen#msg181952

Photos of a pizza made using my blend of bread flour and semolina flour can be seen at Reply 79 at:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8167.msg71404#msg71404 (see also Reply 80)

Based on Leo's numbers, I calculated a hydration of 60% for his flour blend. That was a bit less than what I used. But, like Leo, I did not use any oil in the dough.

I should also add that another member, Evelyne Slomon, who last visited the forum last year, once posted a recipe for a NY style pizza using 00 flour. The recipe is given at Reply 606, at:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=576.msg41054#msg41054

Like Leo, Evelyne used 1% IDY (Leo uses a 7 gram packet for a flour/semolina blend of 750 grams) and a hydration of 60%. However, she added a fair amount of oil and somewhat less salt (Leo uses 2.8%). She also contemplated the possibility of making an emergency type dough, which makes sense when using about 1% IDY.

Peter

[Quebert]

I like his methods for opening and stretching the ball, I'm still very new to doing that process correctly. I'll make my next batch with my high gluten flour plus some sourdough starter and try kneading and stretching like he did. Maybe I should try GH + a bit of Semolina + starter.  I wish he had shown a pizza made with the dough. I know the video was already long, but he could have edited in a finished pizza for show.

[RHawthorne]

00 flour for home NY pizza?  I’ll take a hard pass on that.

He uses 00 flour in pretty much every pizza video and recipe he ever does.

[Matthew]

00 flour for home NY pizza?  I’ll take a hard pass on that.

You can definitely use 00 flour to make great NY pizza @ home if you use the right one. 

[scott r]

I agree Matthew.  Recently I have been using caputo nuvola super for home NY pizza.  I have a steel, but when I make dough I always make extra for my neighbors. One neighbor uses a screen and one a stone.  Everybody has been reporting great success.

[RHawthorne]

I agree Matthew.  Recently I have been using caputo nuvola super for home NY pizza.  I have a steel, but when I make dough I always make extra for my neighbors. One neighbor uses a screen and one a stone.  Everybody has been reporting great success.

It can definitely be done, but is the extra cost of the flour worth it? I've definitely made good pies in my home oven with 00 flour, but I wouldn't say they were any better than the ones I made with good quality bread flour, and usually not even as good. For that matter, I'm finding that I'm not even really liking the results with 00 flour in my Ooni Pro at over 700 degrees any better than when I use bread flour. I personally have come to the conclusion that the stuff is just all-around overrated for making anything but Neapolitan style pizzas. But that's just me. I've never really dedicated myself to making Neapolitan pizzas exclusively until I really nailed it down, so it's possible that there's something I'm just not getting quite right, I guess. But again, for NY style pizzas, I still don't think 00 flour is ever going to be the best option.

[Matthew]

It can definitely be done, but is the extra cost of the flour worth it? I've definitely made good pies in my home oven with 00 flour, but I wouldn't say they were any better than the ones I made with good quality bread flour, and usually not even as good. For that matter, I'm finding that I'm not even really liking the results with 00 flour in my Ooni Pro at over 700 degrees any better than when I use bread flour. I personally have come to the conclusion that the stuff is just all-around overrated for making anything but Neapolitan style pizzas. But that's just me. I've never really dedicated myself to making Neapolitan pizzas exclusively until I really nailed it down, so it's possible that there's something I'm just not getting quite right, I guess. But again, for NY style pizzas, I still don't think 00 flour is ever going to be the best option.

You can make exceptional pizza with any flour if you understand the characteristics of the flour with respect to the maturation time.  The advantage of italian flours is that they publish the W value (strength & resistance to leavening) which takes alot of the guesswork out.  You can however, draw a fairly close inference to American flour based of their protein %.

[RHawthorne]

You can make exceptional pizza with any flour if you understand the characteristics of the flour with respect to the maturation time.  The advantage of italian flours is that they publish the W value (strength & resistance to leavening) which takes alot of the guesswork out.  You can however, draw a fairly close inference to American flour based of their protein %.

I have found almost no Italian flour brands that specify a W rating on the packaging. The last bag of 00 flour I bought was made by Granoro, and that was the first one I've ever seen that gave that specification. Besides that, I've been making pizza for years without ever factoring that into my calculations. It's nice to know, but I've never found it essential. But that's beside the point anyway. Italian 00 flour is made with soft wheat, and NY style pizzas (and pretty much all other American pizzas) have traditionally always been made with hard wheat, and that's what defines the character of the gluten, ultimately. I don't think 00 flour is really an optimal choice for NY style pizza given a better option.

[Rolls]

I have found almost no Italian flour brands that specify a W rating on the packaging. The last bag of 00 flour I bought was made by Granoro, and that was the first one I've ever seen that gave that specification. Besides that, I've been making pizza for years without ever factoring that into my calculations. It's nice to know, but I've never found it essential. But that's beside the point anyway. Italian 00 flour is made with soft wheat, and NY style pizzas (and pretty much all other American pizzas) have traditionally always been made with hard wheat, and that's what defines the character of the gluten, ultimately. I don't think 00 flour is really an optimal choice for NY style pizza given a better option.

It's true that the W value of Italian flours is rarely printed on flour packages, especially those intended for domestic use, however that information is readily available and is used extensively in Italy by both professionals and amateurs alike in product formulas. 

The distinction between "hard" and "soft" wheat classifications is another matter that often gets lost in translation.  In Italian, the term "grano tenero", whose literal translation is "soft grain", is used to describe "common wheat" or triticum aestivum, to be distinguished from "grano duro" (hard grain) or triticum durum, from which semolina is produced.  In Canada, at least, there are common wheats, (triticum aestivum) that are classified as "hard", and this is where the confusion often arises.


Rolls

[Pizza Shark]

00 flour for home NY pizza?  I’ll take a hard pass on that.

I'll second that.  Been there and tried that with the 00.  GMFS followed by All Trumps.  In that order & 'nuf said.

GMFS all the way for me... Tonight's pie after a 3 day CF (ate the other yesterday after only a 2 day CF as I couldn't wait).  Yeah, I like my sauce, cheese and roni!  Can ya tell which side is mine and which is the wife's? Hint... she doesn't like Romano.  WTF is wrong with her?  Oh well.