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Author Topic: November 2020 Monthly Challenge--Emergency Type Doughs  (Read 1470 times)

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Offline tennisman03110

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Re: November 2020 Monthly Challenge--Emergency Type Doughs
« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2020, 10:45:21 AM »
My attempt....I used Jeffrey Hamelman's recipe as a guide. My biga was done as a natural pre-ferment with all rye flour, started at 12:02 AM. So same day  :-D

Later that afternoon, I mixed it up with KASL, 2 g yeast, 70% hydration. RT rise for 2 hours, made one large pizza. Cooked on steel about 8 minutes. It was very tasty, nice crisp bottom, good flavor and the outer edge had a nice chew.

Offline PizzaSean

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Re: November 2020 Monthly Challenge--Emergency Type Doughs
« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2020, 07:37:23 PM »
Hi, Monthly Challenge Thread! I've never done one of these before, but it looked fun.

I was trying my hand at an American Style pizza today for the first time and decided to throw together an emergency dough just to try that out, too!

I took inspiration from Pete-zza's emergency dough Papa John's recipes and went with a 57% hydration. The formula was as follows:

Flour (100%):
Water (57%):
IDY (.6%):
Salt (2.5%):
Oil (2.5%):
Sugar (2.5%):
Total (165.1%):
282.98 g  |  9.98 oz | 0.62 lbs
161.3 g  |  5.69 oz | 0.36 lbs
1.7 g | 0.06 oz | 0 lbs | 0.56 tsp | 0.19 tbsp
7.07 g | 0.25 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.47 tsp | 0.49 tbsp
7.07 g | 0.25 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.57 tsp | 0.52 tbsp
7.07 g | 0.25 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.77 tsp | 0.59 tbsp
467.21 g | 16.48 oz | 1.03 lbs | TF = N/A

I'll note that the water was tap and was about 69F. The flour was about 75F. The finished doughball was about 83F.
I also noticed that the finished dough ball was just under 16 oz (15.84 if memory serves) which surprised me because there was so little residue visible in my bowl.
I mixed by hand, stirring the flour gradually into the water with the yeast and sugar pre mixed with the flour. Flour was unbromated Superlative.
I had reserved a bit of the water to dissolve the salt and then added that after the doughball took shape.
Finally I added the oil.

I've never tried a hydration this low and found that the dough wanted to tear a lot during this mixing process and didn't really develop a nice stretchy gluten. I let the ball rest for maybe 20 min or so and checked it and it was getting closer to a smooth surface, but was still pretty textured looking.
Eventually I just decided to ball it up and let it hang out.
Almost to the minute, three hours elapsed between the two dough ball pics. This was the most yeast I've ever used, the most sugar I've ever used, and a warm kitchen because the oven was running.

Dusted with corn meal generously. Pressing the dough out, it felt a little bubbly and a little hard to stretch, but not terrible.
I dressed it with Bonta diluted with water (no measurements, just trying to achieve a consistency that reminded me of Dominos) and with added onion powder, garlic powder, dried basil, dried oregano, salt, black pepper, and sugar (also no measurements, but on the subtle side).
Cheese was RD Supermo PSLMM.
Pepperoni was basic hormel.

Oven was set to 450 with racks in positions 1 3 5 (1 being top, 5 being bottom). On rack 3 is a quarry tile array 18"x18" that I use for NY pies.
Upon launch tiles read 505F.
8 minutes on 14" pizza screen on tiles. Then 2 min on top rack. Then 1 min on tiles again.

I'm new to American style and haven't done my homework on whether I should do pizza screen on the rack or on a stone type surface. It seemed like during the couple minutes on the rack the pie got a lot better color developing. I was just fidgeting and had meant to test out a pie just on the rack and one on the tiles but forgot, so I messed around during this bake.


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: November 2020 Monthly Challenge--Emergency Type Doughs
« Reply #22 on: November 17, 2020, 08:28:23 PM »
Sean,

A common method that I use as a starting point for most doughs, including an American style dough like a Papa John's dough, is to have the sum of the formula hydration and the amount of oil equal the rated absorption value of the flour used. The oil does not hydrate the flour but it can affect the rheology or flow characteristics of the dough. You did not say what kind or brand of flour you used, but it may have been underhydrated and, therefore, the dough may have been overly elastic and harder to work with.

You can see an example of an emergency Papa John's clone dough formulation that I came up with at Reply 52 at:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg66312;topicseen#msg66312

You will also note that I replaced sugar with honey primarily to expedite the fermentation process but also to contribute a bit to crust coloration, much like sugar does. Honey contains about 17% water, so it, too, may contribute to hydration of the dough. I calculate that the effective hydration of the clone dough recipe cited above comes to around 65%. That may seem a bit high but I used a blend of King Arthur bread flour and vital wheat gluten to raise the protein content to one that is equivalent to a high gluten flour dough, which typically can handle a hydration value of 63%, and usually a couple percent more.

Increasing the amount of water and/or oil in your dough recipe may solve the problem.

Peter


Offline PizzaSean

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Re: November 2020 Monthly Challenge--Emergency Type Doughs
« Reply #23 on: November 17, 2020, 08:36:28 PM »
Thank you, Peter - I had never thought about the water and oil combining like that as a basis for doughs. I have seen some people refer to that on here, but didn't realize quite what you stated here.

The flour was unbromated Superlative, but I don't know how to find the absorption value. I did find this data sheet: https://www.generalmillscf.com/services/productpdf.ashx?pid=53525000

I can see what you mean about the water, oil, and honey in that Papa John's clone! There's always so much to think about with dough formulas, and that's a new area for me to think about.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: November 2020 Monthly Challenge--Emergency Type Doughs
« Reply #24 on: November 17, 2020, 08:58:50 PM »
Sean,

The Superlative flour you used has a protein content of about 12.6%. That is very close to the protein content of the King Arthur bread flour (12.7%). That flour can handle a hydration rate of 62% plus a bit more, so it should work out pretty well with the Superlative also.

Peter

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Offline quietdesperation

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Re: November 2020 Monthly Challenge--Emergency Type Doughs
« Reply #25 on: November 18, 2020, 08:30:41 PM »
thanks to craig’s ny formulation, most of my bakes use the challenges’s definition of emergency dough. this was five hour dough with 1% ldmp.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2020, 08:34:15 PM by quietdesperation »
"If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world" - the hobbit, jrr tolkien

Offline sodface

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Re: November 2020 Monthly Challenge--Emergency Type Doughs
« Reply #26 on: November 20, 2020, 07:34:48 PM »
Dough made at 11AM today.  Baked ~530PM.  Same dough, 1x 14" cheese and black olive, 1x stromboli.  Turned out okay!
Carl

Offline quietdesperation

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Re: November 2020 Monthly Challenge--Emergency Type Doughs
« Reply #27 on: November 21, 2020, 09:29:04 AM »
great stuff carl!
"If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world" - the hobbit, jrr tolkien

Offline sodface

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Re: November 2020 Monthly Challenge--Emergency Type Doughs
« Reply #28 on: November 21, 2020, 10:14:58 AM »
Carl

Offline Bert

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Re: November 2020 Monthly Challenge--Emergency Type Doughs
« Reply #29 on: November 21, 2020, 06:35:11 PM »
17” pizza, 5 hours dough fermented at 74F room temperature, hand mixed, 4 to 5 slap and fold during  the first 2 hours.

KABF Weight (g): 383.10
Whey Weight (g): 241.35
Yeast Weight (g) : 0.64
Salt Weight (g): 9.58
Oil Weight (g): 7.66
Sugar / LDM Weight (g): 7.66

Total Weight (g): 650
Bert

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Offline foreplease

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Re: November 2020 Monthly Challenge--Emergency Type Doughs
« Reply #30 on: November 21, 2020, 09:48:02 PM »
Good Lord, over a 60 year span the many things I have spent 5 hours doing and accomplished so very little. Another beautiful pizza, Bert!
-Tony

Offline donstavely

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Re: November 2020 Monthly Challenge--Emergency Type Doughs
« Reply #31 on: November 22, 2020, 12:59:08 PM »
Maybe not exactly an emergency, but in the spirit of speeding up the process while maintaining as much quality as possible, a question:
Is a "same-day poolish" an oxymoron?  In other words, is there any advantage to using a poolish that doesn't ferment all night long at room temp?  Upping the yeast, using warmer water to start, and using after it doubles in an few hours...
Or skip it altogether?

Offline sodface

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Re: November 2020 Monthly Challenge--Emergency Type Doughs
« Reply #32 on: November 22, 2020, 01:59:09 PM »
BBE dough made at 1030 this morning.  Rolls posted in the bread thread. 180g removed and balled separately right after mixing for a 10" lunch pizza, baked ~1240.  So about 2 hours and a few minutes.  Turned out okay!
Carl

Offline Peter B

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Re: November 2020 Monthly Challenge--Emergency Type Doughs
« Reply #33 on: November 22, 2020, 02:45:11 PM »
17” pizza, 5 hours dough fermented at 74F room temperature, hand mixed, 4 to 5 slap and fold during  the first 2 hours.

KABF Weight (g): 383.10
Whey Weight (g): 241.35
Yeast Weight (g) : 0.64
Salt Weight (g): 9.58
Oil Weight (g): 7.66
Sugar / LDM Weight (g): 7.66

Total Weight (g): 650

Wow - I have not heard of using whey.  Questions:
  • It is a replacement for the water apparently.  Does it need to be at a certain temperature?  Or otherwise - does one handle it any differently that water in a recipe?
  • Pros/cons to using whey?  I may get into making yogurt in the Instant Pot, so the potential to do some strained yogurt and have surplus whey is a possibility in my future.

Thanks in advance-
The Broz
I said to my little one, "come here so I can change you".
He said "change only comes from within".  :-/

Offline Bert

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Re: November 2020 Monthly Challenge--Emergency Type Doughs
« Reply #34 on: November 23, 2020, 12:27:55 PM »
Wow - I have not heard of using whey.  Questions:
  • It is a replacement for the water apparently.  Does it need to be at a certain temperature?  Or otherwise - does one handle it any differently that water in a recipe?
  • Pros/cons to using whey?  I may get into making yogurt in the Instant Pot, so the potential to do some strained yogurt and have surplus whey is a possibility in my future.


I used areesh cheese whey instead of water based on a friend recommendation, areesh cheese is similar to cottage cheese, it is made from yogurt (I used Greek Yogurt from CostCo) which is slowly heated until it separates and curdles, and it is then placed in cheesecloths in order to drain.

I did my normal mixing, the dough was stickier than usual 62% water dough, I added more flour to make it less sticky.  I found the curst had a tangy taste which liked, other than that I didn't notice anything else.

« Last Edit: November 23, 2020, 12:29:39 PM by Bert »
Bert

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Offline quietdesperation

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Re: November 2020 Monthly Challenge--Emergency Type Doughs
« Reply #35 on: November 25, 2020, 11:06:49 PM »
two more 5 hour doughs
"If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world" - the hobbit, jrr tolkien

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