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Author Topic: Koda 16 hacks summarized  (Read 5116 times)

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Offline donstavely

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Re: Koda 16 hacks summarized
« Reply #40 on: January 02, 2021, 12:32:29 PM »
With ongoing "Covid time" on my hands, I have been working on yet another hack for my Koda 16: Steel.

I have been curious to see how a rotating steel would work compared to a rotating stone.  While this may seem like a fool's errand on an oven that can get to >900F, I posted my motivation here:
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=66787.msg651415#msg651415
...
It will take several sessions and many pies to come to some conclusions about the value of these hacks, as well as the others in this thread.  I will report back, with pictures.  I welcome questions, comments, additions, etc.     

I tried a second cook on the rotating steel last night.  It was just a flatbread with EVOO and salt, no sauce or cheese, as a side for a steak dinner.  Frankly, it was a disaster. The bottom was burned around the edges and in spots, and pale and bubbled up elsewhere.  I promised a picture but was too embarrassed to take one before destroying the evidence.  The steel was at 700F measured underneath, so I clearly erred on the side of too hot this time.  I never did get a good temperature reading on the top of the steel.

While I still think it would be possible to make the rotating steel work, I am not really motivated to fight it.  The rotating stone is a joy to use, as both barryvabeach and I have attested, and is a perfect answer for the Koda 16.  I also still believe that the steel under the stone is a useful addition for multi-pie events.  The greater heat capacity also means longer preheat time, so I will use the rotating stone alone for everyday cooks of one or two pies.   

 

Offline ADP

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Re: Koda 16 hacks summarized
« Reply #41 on: January 02, 2021, 01:58:11 PM »
Sorry for the confusion.  As my design has been evolving, some of the old pictures need updating. 

The stack of bushings, nuts, and lockwashers was a vestige of the 3-inch bearing design.  When the stone and plate tips on the bearing during launches and retrieves, the spindle bolt would tilt and lift a little.  I added that hardware to actually hold the bolt down to keep the stone flatter.  Going to the 6-inch bearing, all that is unnecessary.  In the pick below, there is just the bronze shoulder bushing set in the hole from inside the oven, and gravity keeping everything flat and stable. 

You are right some threaded inserts are not as easy to file down as others.  I went back to my spare nuts and bolts bucket and found two more, both of which have fatter bodies and shallower outer threads.  Interestingly, the silver one that I show both filed and unmodified actually has a tapered body.  Still, it was easy to file all the way into the body as shown.  Last time I was shopping at my local Ace Hardware, I verified that they had both types of inserts that I modded.

Note that I am still using my original coupler between the spindle bolt and the square motor shaft, rather than the threaded insert.  This is because I had cut the spindle bolt length down to size for that design and I didn't want to replace it.  If it ain't broke ... 

Again, sorry for the confusion. 

 

Thanks for the explanation and I am sure that it will help others as well. The way you have it now with the coupler and bushing is closer to what I was thinking. I am presuming that is a ROUND shaped Coupler? Does the coupler properly grip both the ROUND threaded bolt and the 5/16" SQUARE Rotisserie rod or did you have to "shape" by filing the SQUARE Rotisserie rod?

Reason I ask is that with my 3/8" x 3/8" coupling shaft, if I lock tight the 5/16" SQUARE Rotisserie rod then I cannot securely tighten a 3/8" ROUND rod let alone a 1/4" ROUND rod ... but I do see that yours is made different and most probably allows for a wider range in thickness of the rods.
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« Last Edit: January 02, 2021, 02:53:59 PM by ADP »

Offline donstavely

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Re: Koda 16 hacks summarized
« Reply #42 on: January 02, 2021, 04:20:49 PM »
I describe how I made the coupler here:
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=61419.msg645021#msg645021
The second picture in that post shows all the parts of the spindle coupler separately.

Again, I filed the corners of the square key stock along about half its length, deep enough that I could pound it into the larger, longer round sleeve.  The smaller, shorter round sleeve slides into the larger one, and the 1/4-20 spindle bolt slides into the smaller sleeve.  The sleeves and bolt all fit loosely, so the setscrew is needed to hold everything together.  I drilled through both of the sleeves at once and tapped them both together, so the setscrew threads into the coupler, holds the two sleeves together, and tightens against the spindle bolt.  I ground the threads flat along some of the length of the bolt for the setscrew to bite.  I show another view of the coupler below.

Keep in mind that there is nothing special about any of the parts I am using.  They all came from my local Ace Hardware store.  I just rummaged through the small parts bins, piecing stuff together until I found what I thought could work.  If you don't have access to exactly the same parts, you will have to go through a similar process with what you can find.   

Offline ADP

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Re: Koda 16 hacks summarized
« Reply #43 on: January 03, 2021, 11:46:54 PM »
I describe how I made the coupler here:
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=61419.msg645021#msg645021
The second picture in that post shows all the parts of the spindle coupler separately.

Again, I filed the corners of the square key stock along about half its length, deep enough that I could pound it into the larger, longer round sleeve.  The smaller, shorter round sleeve slides into the larger one, and the 1/4-20 spindle bolt slides into the smaller sleeve.  The sleeves and bolt all fit loosely, so the setscrew is needed to hold everything together.  I drilled through both of the sleeves at once and tapped them both together, so the setscrew threads into the coupler, holds the two sleeves together, and tightens against the spindle bolt.  I ground the threads flat along some of the length of the bolt for the setscrew to bite.  I show another view of the coupler below.

Keep in mind that there is nothing special about any of the parts I am using.  They all came from my local Ace Hardware store.  I just rummaged through the small parts bins, piecing stuff together until I found what I thought could work.  If you don't have access to exactly the same parts, you will have to go through a similar process with what you can find.

Thanks. As soon as I read your explanation, I realized that you had already explained that in a previous post. For some reason, I thought you had changed that as well.

Offline mux

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Re: Koda 16 hacks summarized
« Reply #44 on: January 04, 2021, 11:54:58 AM »
Wow as an engineer I loved reading this. Keep posting more finding and details, I do love reading them.

Some questions: could you mount the motor closer? I noticed the sheet metal motor mount  standoffs are rather long.  Do you think you could mount it closer to the bottom without having heat be an  issue?

I have DIY tools, but not many that can work with cutting steel. So the two parts I am having difficulties trying to figure out where to source are the motor mount and the flat steel plate you mounted the turntable to and that the pizza stone sits atop.

Here's a source for a square turntable that is 6" that is inexpensive.
https://www.mcmaster.com/6031K18/

Any recommendations for the other two parts would be appreciated.



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Offline donstavely

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Re: Koda 16 hacks summarized
« Reply #45 on: January 04, 2021, 12:51:21 PM »
Thanks, mux.  I am glad to see others get some inspiration from the thread.

Yes, the motor could be mounted closer without any problems with heat - it is surprisingly cool under there.  If I had to do it all over again, I would bolt the motor plate directly to the heat shield with a single bolt, rather than my three standoffs.  The single bolt is simpler and makes it much easier to align the motor to the spindle.   I am just too lazy to take it apart again.   I did shorten my standoffs to about 1/4", which gives me about 2" clearance under the motor to get at the switch, which works fine.   

For the turntable plate and the motor mount, I bought a 8" by 18" sheet of 16GA weldable steel from Ace.  Thin enough to cut but stiff enough to do the job.  I used a bandsaw, but I am sure that a jigsaw with a metal blade would work as well.  A hacksaw would be tough sledding.  I freehanded the cuts and then trued them up with a bench sander, mainly to make them look pretty.  A metal file and patience should work as well.

I mentioned that these too parts could just as easily be made from sheet aluminum.  Just pick something a little thicker so that it is about as stiff.  You would cut it the same way, but it will be a little less teeth-rattling!

That turntable should be perfect.  It is nice that you don't have to de-grease it like the lubricated ones on Amazon.  Don't forget to de-zinc it with vinegar per the previous posts.  I found the cheapest source of powdered graphite for high-temp lubrication here:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07V4B366G/?tag=pmak-20
Funny that this guy repackages it and brands it for Pinewood Derby cars!  But carbon is carbon.


   

Offline barryvabeach

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Re: Koda 16 hacks summarized
« Reply #46 on: January 04, 2021, 08:20:31 PM »
Mux,  you can buy a universal rotis motor mount -  check Amazon, this is one, there are others   https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B01HBALMXK/?tag=pmak-20

Offline morrissey

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Re: Koda 16 hacks summarized
« Reply #47 on: January 19, 2021, 12:42:46 PM »
Finally was able to get around to installing the motor I ordered via the Ooni hack facebook group. I made a few modifications and plan on making a few more, overall pretty happy. I have a 16.5" stone in it right now and might downgrade to a 16" stone.  I try to make the biggest pizza's possible and cranking out 16" pies with the current setup.


http://www.youtube.com/embed/hcr5hfVpnMs



http://www.youtube.com/embed/KEV4Zv3ONoQ





« Last Edit: January 19, 2021, 03:34:52 PM by morrissey »

Offline donstavely

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Re: Koda 16 hacks summarized
« Reply #48 on: January 19, 2021, 04:59:08 PM »
That looks great, morrissey!  I am glad you are finally rotating.  I am sure you will appreciate it a little bit more each time you use it, as barryvabeach and I do.  :chef:

That doesn't look like a standard rotisserie motor in the video.  For those of us who aren't Facebookers, could you describe or show pics of the your bearing, spindle, and motor mount solutions?

Also, why are you thinking about going from your 16.5" stone to 16", especially if you like to make big pies?  Non lo capisco.  ???

Offline barryvabeach

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Re: Koda 16 hacks summarized
« Reply #49 on: January 19, 2021, 08:01:00 PM »
Looks nice,  let us know how it cooks.  I did a fairly high preheat this last weekend, and made just one pie, but was a little disappointed. The underside of the crust was pretty dark at the outer edges, but very pale in the center.  I am wondering if the rotation is keeping the outer edge of the stone much hotter than the inner part -  if so,  I made need to put in a deflector to see if I can even it out.  I am using a round stone that I bought years ago, so it may just be an issue with the stone.

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Offline donstavely

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Re: Koda 16 hacks summarized
« Reply #50 on: January 20, 2021, 02:05:28 PM »
That is really weird, Barry.  My rotating stone is always somewhat hotter in the middle that out towards the edge.  (Certainly not the extreme difference that we get with the stationary stone!)  I get pretty even bottom cooks in the three to five minute range.  I haven't tried a sub-two minute NP-style yet, but I don't expect to have trouble with it.

Here is a theory for your consideration:  What if your stone is actually too hot?  If the edges stick to the stone, you could get some steam buildup that lifts the center of the pie up off of the stone.  FWIW, I remember seeing a burned edge and pale center during my failed rotating steel experiment.   

For sure let us know what temperatures you see from center to edge after your pre-heat next time.  I will as well, and post a bottom pic.

Offline barryvabeach

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Re: Koda 16 hacks summarized
« Reply #51 on: January 20, 2021, 08:42:54 PM »
Don,   good point,  I wasn't measuring the temp of the stone, just notice the undercrust when I was cutting the pie into slices.   I did see some charring at the rim of the stone in one area,  I will check again this weekend , and may just take the pie and turn it once during cooking.  In the past I have been shooting for a 3 min bake time trying to get a little crunch on the pie,  I may turn it down a little as well and see how that works out.   

Offline donstavely

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Re: Koda 16 hacks summarized
« Reply #52 on: January 21, 2021, 11:02:26 AM »
I baked a couple of pies from some frozen dough last night so I made sure to take some pics.  You can see that the center of the stone is indeed hotter than the edge.  I think the bottom looks pretty even.  I just let it turn, but I tend to peek under the edge with a turning peel several times waiting for it to brown up.  If anything, I will go a little hotter and shorter next time.

Offline barryvabeach

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Re: Koda 16 hacks summarized
« Reply #53 on: January 21, 2021, 08:22:49 PM »
Thanks,  I just made some dough tonight, though it won't get put to the test till Sunday.   That is a great looking pie.

Offline morrissey

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Re: Koda 16 hacks summarized
« Reply #54 on: January 21, 2021, 10:45:52 PM »
That looks great, morrissey!  I am glad you are finally rotating.  I am sure you will appreciate it a little bit more each time you use it, as barryvabeach and I do.  :chef:

That doesn't look like a standard rotisserie motor in the video.  For those of us who aren't Facebookers, could you describe or show pics of the your bearing, spindle, and motor mount solutions?

Also, why are you thinking about going from your 16.5" stone to 16", especially if you like to make big pies?  Non lo capisco.  ???

Thank you! I think the issue with the 16.5" stone is that I get a little movement of the stone when launching the pizza and there is NO  room for error, so it will hit the side of the flame guard and then I need to adjust. I have only used it twice and still figuring it out. My theory is that the 16" stone will give me more wiggle room. I'd prefer t keep the 16.5 stone to allow for the bigger pizzas. Isn't someone here also using the a 16.5" stone too, are you running into any issues? Note: It is very likely user error on my end and also slight error of where I drilled my hole into the unit.

Here are some photos of the device and mods I have made. I also cut down the rods to about 8" bc with the 16.5" stone there was absolutely no room for them to spin without hitting the flame guard. I think the next thing I am going to try is to remove the rods completely and weld a 8-12" disc on to it, which i think will give a more stable surface.

See attached photos and let me know if you have any questions.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2021, 10:49:12 PM by morrissey »

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Offline barryvabeach

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Re: Koda 16 hacks summarized
« Reply #55 on: January 22, 2021, 07:04:09 AM »
Thanks for the photos, that looks like a nice unit.  One thing had me puzzled, where does the thrust bearing sit?  If it sits inside the oven cavity, I was wondering how it would hold up to the heat. 

Offline donstavely

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Re: Koda 16 hacks summarized
« Reply #56 on: January 22, 2021, 01:51:44 PM »
Wow, Morrissey, this is very different than I thought.  At first it looked like Barry's "microwave turntable" approach, with rollers on the three-sided "spider".  But I realized that the stone rests directly on the rods, and the disks on the end were centering clips, which you said interfered with the burner shield.  Do I have it right?

I do think the 8-12" plate will keep the stone centered.  Mine stays put during launch and retrieve, and I have not had to recenter it since I put it together.

It isn't clear whether you are using the ball bearing in the last pic, or what appears to be stacked washers in the first pic.  In either case, remember the caution about galvanized steel inside the oven.  It looks like the bearing might be stainless.  Still, best to use a solvent to remove any grease and replace it with powdered graphite.

I am also interested how tippy the stone is, given the size of the bearing.  You recall my 3" lazy susan bearing worked OK, but I like the solid feel of my 6" bearing better.


Offline morrissey

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Re: Koda 16 hacks summarized
« Reply #58 on: January 22, 2021, 10:21:27 PM »

It isn't clear whether you are using the ball bearing in the last pic, or what appears to be stacked washers in the first pic.  In either case, remember the caution about galvanized steel inside the oven.  It looks like the bearing might be stainless.  Still, best to use a solvent to remove any grease and replace it with powdered graphite.

I am also interested how tippy the stone is, given the size of the bearing.  You recall my 3" lazy susan bearing worked OK, but I like the solid feel of my 6" bearing better.

The part with the rods and steel plate sit on top of the ball bearing  inside the oven. I can take a video of how it fits if you'd like.

I was told the ball bears were stainless but I did the steps linked in the other video to be safe. Do you apply the powdered graphite between every bake?


Offline donstavely

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Re: Koda 16 hacks summarized
« Reply #59 on: January 23, 2021, 11:02:24 AM »
I was told the ball bears were stainless but I did the steps linked in the other video to be safe. Do you apply the powdered graphite between every bake?

You definitely don't need to reapply the graphite very often.  I stays in place in the ball races, especially in a horizontal application like this.  I only reapply it when I take things apart and put them together again, as I have been trying my different variations of the mod.  Unless to take the stone and bearing assembly out to move the oven, it should be fine for months (or years?)  I actually inherited my little tube of graphite from my late father.  I only had to buy another one after all my bearing iterations, loosing the cap, and spilling a bunch inside my tool box.     

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