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Offline Chefchris96

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Dough analysis - Looking for assistance!
« on: December 01, 2020, 01:18:56 PM »
Hi All!
[/b]

So I am not really sure if this is the right area to ask for help!

So I have been practicing and trying to soak up as much knowledge as possible over the last few months to try and get a dough recipe nailed down for my new venture but I have found there's lots of different techniques and tips.

I have been getting okay results, I do not currently have a WFO but will soon, have not currently ventured into BIGA which is something I am hoping to learn

I am going to post my process and would love if you guys could give me any advice that you have found!

FLOUR: 6688G
WATER: 4350G
SALT: 200G
FRESH YEAST: 20G

1. Add all the cold water into the mixer
2. Remove 1 jug of water and keep separate (water A)
3. Add the yeast to Water A and whisk together
4.Add the salt into the mixer and dissolve into the water
4. Start the mixer on low speed and gradually start adding the flour
5. Once about half the flour is in, Pour in Water A
6.Add the remaining flour
7. Leave the mixer on Low speed for 25minutes
8. After the 25 minutes turn off the machine and let the dough sit in the mixer for 15 minutes
9. After the 15 mins turn the mixer back on for 5 minutes
10. Remove the dough and put into a slightly oiled dough tray
11. Leave in a warm room temp environment for 1 hour
12. Place in the fridge for 48 hours
13. Remove the dough and take out the dough tray onto the bench, ball the dough into a large ball and slight oil the top with olive oil
15. Leave for an hour+ so the dough begins to flatten out
16. Shape the dough balls - I use 250g atm
17. return to the fridge for 24 hours.
18. Remove the trays a few hours before you need them to allow to come up to room temp.


So that's my process so far! I REALLY am working on getting my head around BIGA dough but unsure how I would adapt my current process - I have adapted the recipe below but I am totally unsure if I have done it correctly

Biga
Flour: 1672g
Water:870g
Yeast: 20g

Main dough
Flour:5016
Water:3478g
Salt: 200g

And to adapt the recipe ferment the BIGA instead of the bulk dough, then add the BIGA to the final dough on the day I need the dough? ???


Sorry for the super long post, Below are my current results but wanting to improve if I can!

Peace

Chris




« Last Edit: December 02, 2020, 02:05:37 PM by Chefchris96 »

Offline Pizza_Not_War

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Re: Dough analysis - Looking for assistance!
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2021, 06:22:21 PM »
Adding yeast to cold water would be the one thing that jumps out at me. Never use fresh, but I believe it needs to go into warm water for best results.

Offline Chefchris96

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Re: Dough analysis - Looking for assistance!
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2021, 04:51:17 AM »
Adding yeast to cold water would be the one thing that jumps out at me. Never use fresh, but I believe it needs to go into warm water for best results.

Hi Thanks for the rply.
/
How come you advise against fresh?

Offline HansB

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Re: Dough analysis - Looking for assistance!
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2021, 06:43:30 AM »
Hi Thanks for the rply.
/
How come you advise against fresh?

Fresh yeast is fine, I have not had a problem using it with cold water. I think he meant that he has not used it.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2021, 06:45:15 AM by HansB »
Hans

Offline Yael

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Re: Dough analysis - Looking for assistance!
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2021, 07:08:49 AM »
As Hans said, fresh yeast is ok with cold water, unlike IDY which will freeze (to death).

Chefchris96,

I suggest you make it simpler, in this order in the mixing bowl: water, salt, flour, yeast. On a total dough mixing of 10 to 15 min (25 min is too long, there's no need for that in pizza making), 3 min before the end you add oil (ok you don't use oil in your dough).
Sit 15 min in the mixer is ok to give more strength, but a few seconds are enough (2 or 3 turns).

The following points will depend on your preferences and constraints (do you have enough room in your fridge, room temperatures high or low...), basically you can:
- ball immediately and CF 1, 2, 3+ days
- RT bulk ferment 0.5 to xx hours
- take the dough out of the fridge xx hours before baking.

A standard dough management could be like this :
- FDT (final dough temperature) of 23-24°C,
- sit on the counter 0.5H (more if RT is cold, less if RT hot),
- make balls, and then CF (+2~4°C at core) 48-72H,
- then take the dough ball out of the fridge 1 to 3H before baking.
“Learn the rules like a pro so you can break them like an artist” - Pablo Picasso

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Offline Chefchris96

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Re: Dough analysis - Looking for assistance!
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2021, 08:34:00 AM »
As Hans said, fresh yeast is ok with cold water, unlike IDY which will freeze (to death).

Chefchris96,

I suggest you make it simpler, in this order in the mixing bowl: water, salt, flour, yeast. On a total dough mixing of 10 to 15 min (25 min is too long, there's no need for that in pizza making), 3 min before the end you add oil (ok you don't use oil in your dough).
Sit 15 min in the mixer is ok to give more strength, but a few seconds are enough (2 or 3 turns).

The following points will depend on your preferences and constraints (do you have enough room in your fridge, room temperatures high or low...), basically you can:
- ball immediately and CF 1, 2, 3+ days
- RT bulk ferment 0.5 to xx hours
- take the dough out of the fridge xx hours before baking.

A standard dough management could be like this :
- FDT (final dough temperature) of 23-24°C,
- sit on the counter 0.5H (more if RT is cold, less if RT hot),
- make balls, and then CF (+2~4°C at core) 48-72H,
- then take the dough ball out of the fridge 1 to 3H before baking.




Thank you so much for this! What great advice on simplifying my process - I think I have just so much information from different sources I have just tried to implement too many so thankyou for you explanations!

Offline Pizza_Not_War

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Re: Dough analysis - Looking for assistance!
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2021, 12:54:58 AM »
Fresh yeast is fine, I have not had a problem using it with cold water. I think he meant that he has not used it.
Hans is correct, I've not used fresh as I have rarely seen it. Besides I love sourdough. Learn something new about cold water and fresh yeast however.

Offline Chefchris96

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Re: Dough analysis - Looking for assistance!
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2021, 03:56:08 AM »
Hans is correct, I've not used fresh as I have rarely seen it. Besides I love sourdough. Learn something new about cold water and fresh yeast however.

I'm a serial sourdough killer unfortunately  :'( :-D

Offline QwertyJuan

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Re: Dough analysis - Looking for assistance!
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2021, 09:20:38 PM »
Hans is correct, I've not used fresh as I have rarely seen it. Besides I love sourdough. Learn something new about cold water and fresh yeast however.

Tom was an advocate of using Lesaffre IDY... super simple. If using a mixer, put it on top, as the last ingredient and start the mixing process. It's seriously fool-proof.

Offline QwertyJuan

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Re: Dough analysis - Looking for assistance!
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2021, 09:22:52 PM »
Is this dough being used for personal use or in a restaurant/pizza place?? That changes how you will want to handle the dough and your finished dough temps.

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Offline Chefchris96

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Re: Dough analysis - Looking for assistance!
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2021, 02:35:11 PM »
Is this dough being used for personal use or in a restaurant/pizza place?? That changes how you will want to handle the dough and your finished dough temps.

Professional restaurant! Started trying to research more into Boga doughs

Offline Chefchris96

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Re: Dough analysis - Looking for assistance!
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2021, 02:35:45 PM »
Is this dough being used for personal use or in a restaurant/pizza place?? That changes how you will want to handle the dough and your finished dough temps.

Professional restaurant! Started trying to research more into Biga doughs

Offline QwertyJuan

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Re: Dough analysis - Looking for assistance!
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2021, 08:43:55 PM »
Professional restaurant! Started trying to research more into Biga doughs

I am going to have to disagree with Yael then. Tom was ADAMENT that you want your dough into the fridge ASAP. His recommendation was 20 minutes from the time it was done mixing until it was balled and in the fridge. I'd say we are more in the 30 minute range here at work... but we sure try. In a restaurant you want CONSISTENCY. Try to hit a certain finished dough temp, then get those dough balls made and into the fridge as soon as possible.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Dough analysis - Looking for assistance!
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2021, 09:24:15 PM »
Here is a post by Tom Lehmann along the lines mentioned by QwertyJuan:

Reply 23 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=53041.msg537571;topicseen#msg537571.

There were times when Tom advocated resting a dough before refrigerating it but it was usually because the dough had to be made to fit a pan. And there were times when he advocated resting the dough if it was to be rolled out after the rest period.

The above said, there are professional pizza operators who rest the dough balls before putting them into the cooler in order to give the dough balls a head start. To do this, it may help to adjust the amount of yeast to offset the rest period.

Peter

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