Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza

[pythonic]

Nate,

My dough for the cheesesticks is ready now.  I was sidetracked for a little while, but I still will bake them tonight.  Is there something you wanted to tell me about them?

Norma

Nope.  Just anxious to see how they turn out for u.  Are u using your own garlic sauce or Papas?

[norma427]

Nope.  Just anxious to see how they turn out for u.  Are u using your own garlic sauce or Papas?

Nate,

I just started to heat up the oven.  I probably will be using the attempt I made on the PJ garlic sauce along with what was left of the PJ Garlic sauce in the one container.  I really haven't decided yet what I am going to do including rack position.

Norma

[norma427]

This is how my first attempt went on making PJ cheesesticks.  The dough looked fermented enough in 3 days and the dough was very easy to open and seemed to me that it looked a lot easier to open then when I watched the shift manger at PJ open the dough ball.  I made some dustinator flour.  I mixed regular flour with semolina and soybean oil for the dustinator flour.  The dough ball was opened to about 12” and only was docked one time.  The garlic sauce was applied next and the then a little over 2 cups of LMPS mozzarella was placed on the top.

I really couldn't decide what rack position to try, and wondered if the bottom of the cheesesticks would brown enough only using the screen on the middle rack, so I put my pizza stone on the bottom rack position incase the bottom crust would not brown enough on the middle rack using the screen.  In the end that was a good decision because the bottom crust didn't want to brown enough and I saw the cheese was starting to brown.  The cheesesticks were then taken off the screen with the metal peel and placed on the pizza stone.  That did the trick of browning the bottom okay.  The cheese didn't melt perfectly at all places on the top and some parts wanted to get browner than other places. 

I must say though, even though the cheesestick I attempted were not perfect, they were really good.  The crust had a much better flavor than the ones I had at PJ.  The crumb of the cheesesticks were soft too. 

Total bake time was 10 minutes at 500 degrees F.

Norma 

[norma427]

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Norma,

You did a nice job with the Cheesestick clones.

In the past, I have observed PJ workers work with dough balls right out of the cooler. They are hard to open up without resorting to a lot of docking. I suspect the dough ball that the worker in the PJ store you visited used to make your Cheesesticks had been allowed to warm up but maybe not to the optimum stage.

You indicated that you used two cups of shredded mozzarella cheese. If you look at the video below, you will note that the amount of cheese put on the skin is rather sparse. Was the cup you used a standard 8-ounce (by volume) measuring cup? If so, you might sometime try using less cheese if only to be able to make a more direct comparison with the Cheesesticks that PJ makes. Also, cheese is the most expensive item on the Cheesesticks product. That might be a factor if you decide to sell your Cheesestick clones at market.

I notice also that you cut the pizza into 18 pieces instead of 14 pieces (some PJ stores apparently cut into 16 pieces). I assume that you were not trying to copy PJ exactly on this aspect.

With respect to oven rack position, when I made my PJ pizza clones, using a screen, I placed the screen on the lowermost oven rack position of my electric oven. Depending on what was placed on the pizzas and their quantities, I would sometimes have to raise the pizza in the oven once the bottom crust was of the desired color in order to get more top crust browning or to finish cooking the toppings. The oven temperature I used was around 500 degrees F.

Were you satisfied with the performance of your garlic sauce?



Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

You did a nice job with the Cheesestick clones.

In the past, I have observed PJ workers work with dough balls right out of the cooler. They are hard to open up without resorting to a lot of docking. I suspect the dough ball that the worker in the PJ store you visited used to make your Cheesesticks had been allowed to warm up but maybe not to the optimum stage.

You indicated that you used two cups of shredded mozzarella cheese. If you look at the video below, you will note that the amount of cheese put on the skin is rather sparse. Was the cup you used a standard 8-ounce (by volume) measuring cup? If so, you might sometime try using less cheese if only to be able to make a more direct comparison with the Cheesesticks that PJ makes. Also, cheese is the most expensive item on the Cheesesticks product. That might be a factor if you decide to sell your Cheesestick clones at market.

I notice also that you cut the pizza into 18 pieces instead of 14 pieces (some PJ stores apparently cut into 16 pieces). I assume that you were not trying to copy PJ exactly on this aspect.

With respect to oven rack position, when I made my PJ pizza clones, using a screen, I placed the screen on the lowermost oven rack position of my electric oven. Depending on what was placed on the pizzas and their quantities, I would sometimes have to raise the pizza in the oven once the bottom crust was of the desired color in order to get more top crust browning or to finish cooking the toppings. The oven temperature I used was around 500 degrees F.

Were you satisfied with the performance of your garlic sauce?



Peter

Peter,

My cheesesticks sure didn't look like Nate's.  I really don't know where the shift manager got that cheesestick dough ball from, but he went into the back to get it.  It probably was warmed up some, but it you are probably right that maybe it wasn't warmed up to the optimum stage.  The doughs balls I watched the shift manager take out of the dough boxes and then make into pizzas didn't look to easy to open either.

I see the cheese amount placed on the cheesesticks in the video is rather sparse.  I used a regular measuring cup to apply the LMPS mozzarella.  The shift manager used some kind of cup (applied two times) to put mozzarella on the cheesesticks I purchased at PJ and then sprinkled more mozzarella on them, but I wasn't close enough to really see what size cup or portion container he used.  I can understand if I decide to sell the cheesesticks clones I will have to be careful in how much cheese I apply, because I know cheese is expensive. 

There was no reason why I cut the cheesesticks into 18 pieces.  I just cut.

Thanks for telling me when you made your PJ clone pizzas, using a screen, that you placed the screen on the lowermost oven rack position.  I should have look though this thread more to see what you did before I decided to bake.  After the bake, I thought I probably should have tried the bottom rack position because the heating element is on the bottom. 

My garlic sauce spread okay and there weren't any messes in my oven from the garlic sauce, but I was not satisfied with the taste of my attempt at the garlic sauce compared to PJ Garlic sauce.

Norma

[pythonic]

Norma,

Nice looking CheeseSticks there.  The thickness is spot on.  The bottoms of the sticks differ from papa johns though (the stone I'm thinking). Which texture (crunch) was better, yours or papa johns).  As for the cheese I used 4oz.  How bout you?

Nate

[Chicago Bob]

Them's some cheesy cheese stix Norma. 

[norma427]

Norma,

Nice looking CheeseSticks there.  The thickness is spot on.  The bottoms of the sticks differ from papa johns though (the stone I'm thinking). Which texture (crunch) was better, yours or papa johns).  As for the cheese I used 4oz.  How bout you?

Nate

Thanks Nate, but mine sure didn't look as good as yours.    I liked my attempt better on the bottom crust compared to PJ bottom crust.  I used 2 cups plus a little more of LMPS mozzarella. 

Norma

[pythonic]

Thanks Nate, but mine sure didn't look as good as yours.    I liked my attempt better on the bottom crust compared to PJ bottom crust.  I used 2 cups plus a little more of LMPS mozzarella. 

Norma

I used convection if that helps with the cheese.

[norma427]

I used convection if that helps with the cheese.

Nate,

Thanks for telling me that you used the convection feature on your oven.  Your cheese sure looks nice.    My home oven is very old and doesn't have a convection feature.

Norma

[norma427]

If anyone is interested this was my next attempt at cloning the PJ cheese sticks at Reply 14 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,25844.msg260886.html#msg260886 

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Norma,

You might recall that I found an imitation butter flavoring from McCormick's that I felt might be a good candidate to use with the Parkay Squeeze margarine spread and a source of garlic flavor. The McCormick product I have in mind is not the one that you often see at retail in supermarkets. That product is like the one that you found locally (Shank's) and have been testing. Rather, it is the one shown at the Amazon website at https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0012272X8/?tag=pmak-20. The appeal of the latter product is that it has several of the ingredients used in the PJ Garlic sauce: soybean oil, natural and artificial flavors and lactic acid. It is the only butter flavoring that I could find that includes lactic acid. Some margarine products have lactic acid but none that we have been considering in this thread for cloning purposes.

This morning, I decided to see if McCormick's has a foodservice division that might be able to give you a sample of the McCormick's imitation butter flavor product for professionals. So, after finding a telephone number at the McCormick's website, I was able to speak with a customer service rep on the non-consumer side. After I told her what I was looking for, she said that they don't provide samples directly to interested parties but rather through brokers. I told her I was assisting you and that you are in Pennsylvania. She gave me the product number and suggested that you call the broker who services that part of the country and ask if a sample can be sent out to you. The item code number is 900023466. If you are interested, I can PM you with the name of the broker and the person to speak with.

I don't know if the above product is the magic bullet we are looking for but it seems to offer promise. It would be added to a margarine product like the Parkay Squeeze product along with a garlic product, such as the dry garlic powder. It might have to be thinned to get the right consistency but that is something that can be addressed later if needed.

Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

You might recall that I found an imitation butter flavoring from McCormick's that I felt might be a good candidate to use with the Parkay Squeeze margarine spread and a source of garlic flavor. The McCormick product I have in mind is not the one that you often see at retail in supermarkets. That product is like the one that you found locally (Shank's) and have been testing. Rather, it is the one shown at the Amazon website at https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0012272X8/?tag=pmak-20. The appeal of the latter product is that it has several of the ingredients used in the PJ Garlic sauce: soybean oil, natural and artificial flavors and lactic acid. It is the only butter flavoring that I could find that includes lactic acid. Some margarine products have lactic acid but none that we have been considering in this thread for cloning purposes.

This morning, I decided to see if McCormick's has a foodservice division that might be able to give you a sample of the McCormick's imitation butter flavor product for professionals. So, after finding a telephone number at the McCormick's website, I was able to speak with a customer service rep on the non-consumer side. After I told her what I was looking for, she said that they don't provide samples directly to interested parties but rather through brokers. I told her I was assisting you and that you are in Pennsylvania. She gave me the product number and suggested that you call the broker who services that part of the country and ask if a sample can be sent out to you. The item code number is 900023466. If you are interested, I can PM you with the name of the broker and the person to speak with.

I don't know if the above product is the magic bullet we are looking for but it seems to offer promise. It would be added to a margarine product like the Parkay Squeeze product along with a garlic product, such as the dry garlic powder. It might have to be thinned to get the right consistency but that is something that can be addressed later if needed.

Peter

Peter,

I do recall that you found the imitation butter flavoring from McCormick's that you felt might be a good candidate to use with the Parkay Squeeze and a source of garlic flavor.  I know that the McCormick product you have in mind is not the one that can be found easily at the retail level in supermarkets.  Interesting to hear that the imitation butter flavoring from McCormick has several of the ingredients used in the PJ Garlic sauce and the imitation butter flavoring does have lactic acid.

Thanks for calling McCormick's and speaking to a customer service rep on the non-consumer side of McCormick's.  I am interested in knowing the broker's name if you could give it to me in a PM.  I know it might not be the magic bullet we are looking for but we would not know until I could try it.

Norma

[Pete-zza]

For the 12th time in 14 years, Papa John's was #1 in customer satisfaction among the major pizza chains, and PJ is offering 50% off on online pizza sales to celebrate the occasion: http://www.restaurantnews.com/papa-johns-thanks-america-for-voting-it-1-in-customer-satisfaction/?utm_source=August+6%2C+2013b&utm_campaign=080613b&utm_medium=email. Even though we get little feedback on the PJ clones in this thread, someone is reading the posts in the thread to the point where the thread in at the #8 position on the forum in terms of page views.

Peter

[norma427]

If anyone is interested in what Papa John looked like in his early days of making pizza this is a photo of before and now.  It was posted on Papa John's Pizza facebook page a couple of hours ago.  I don't think I recall seeing pizzas sitting on those racks waiting to be baked before.

Norma

[Pete-zza]

I don't think I recall seeing pizzas sitting on those racks waiting to be baked before.

Norma,

I do not think that that is the normal practice. I would say that the photos were taken at a high production period, such as around lunch or dinner. That is what I observed at the PJ store near me but without any sauce or anything else on the skins. However, the skins were docked while held in the racks.

Peter

[Chicago Bob]

If anyone is interested in what Papa John looked like in his early days of making pizza this is a photo of before and now.  It was posted on Papa John's Pizza facebook page a couple of hours ago.  I don't think I recall seeing pizzas sitting on those racks waiting to be baked before.

Norma

Papa needs a makeover! 

[norma427]

Norma,

I do not think that that is the normal practice. I would say that the photos were taken at a high production period, such as around lunch or dinner. That is what I observed at the PJ store near me but without any sauce or anything else on the skins. However, the skins were docked while held in the racks.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for telling me that you don't think that is normal practice at PJ.  I didn't know you observed docked skins held in racks.  I wonder if that man behind Papa John is the same person.  He kind of looks like the same person to me.

Norma

[Chicago Bob]

Peter,

Thanks for telling me that you don't think that is normal practice at PJ.  I didn't know you observed docked skins held in racks.  I wonder if that man behind Papa John is the same person.  He kind of looks like the same person to me.

Norma

I'll bet he is Norma....and the guy behind him at the mixer too. 
Maybe that is why that photo was taken....that's pretty cool if it is true don't you think?   
All of 'em need makeovers though!