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Author Topic: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza  (Read 599693 times)

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1120 on: November 30, 2016, 10:02:35 PM »
My go to flour is Robin Hood Bread Flour as that's all I can really get (I do have Caputo 00 but don't use it for this style).  Impossible to get Trumps or KA or the others you guys talk about, I've tried, believe me.  I need to put more pepperonis on there as well, they always look well saturated but end up spacing out substantially.  The pizzas always go well with everyone :)  I tend to invite different people over when I do these pizzas now just to share the love.

What difference in taste or other factors would moving to the 5 day fermentation provide? 

Thanks for the kind words too, means a lot coming from you.  I wouldn't be able to make these delicious pizzas without your help.
pepapi,

I think the Robin Hood bread flour is a good choice for the dough formulation you used. It has a protein content of 13%, which compares with 12.7% for the King Arthur Bread Flour (KABF) that I used for a lot of my experiments and versions as discussed in this thread. Originally, PJ said that it used a high gluten flour. Subsequently, they stopped saying that the flour was a high gluten flour. Instead they said that it was a high protein flour. I originally thought that maybe they went to a flour with a lower protein content. But later it dawned on me that maybe they just wanted to get away from using the term gluten, because there were people who felt that they had some kind of sensitivity to gluten and maybe were staying away from foods with gluten, and even worse, foods with high gluten. Also, the gluten-free trend was starting to grow and to firmly take hold. However, I eventually got to talk to a specialist at PJ (Diane Helms), and in the course of our conversation I asked Diane about the protein content of the PJ flour. I specifically mentioned that at one time PJs promoted their flour as being a "high-gluten" flour. She said that that was still true. When I said that to me "high gluten" meant around 14% protein, she said "Well, it isn't quite that high". It is very difficult to determine the protein content of flour from Nutrition Facts because of the way that the FDA requires that protein be reported. But from other nutrients whose values I could ascertain, I believe that a protein content of around 13.3-13.6% should be a good range. But I think I would stay away from All Trumps and other high gluten flours with about the same protein content (around 14-14.3%).

As for the difference between a 5-8 day PJ clone and a 2-day PJ clone, I think both are very good choices. However, what I discovered is that it is hard for most people to replicate the PJ dough with a standard home refrigerator. In PJ's case, their dough as prepared at one of its commissaries is kept refrigerated at a certain temperature or narrow range of temperatures from the time the dough leaves the commissary until it reaches the PJ stores and then kept in coolers in the store. In a home refrigerator setting, it is hard to replicate that temperature regimen. So, the results may be prone to a fair amount of variation, which can include failure or sub-par results. By contrast, a two-day regimen is pretty easy to achieve. The recipe you used is a bit different than the original two-day formulation I came up with but I believe that the differences are not going to be dramatic and particularly noticeable in the finished product. But this is how I described the results when I came up with the version at Reply 20 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg59217#msg59217:

I was extremely pleased with the way the pizza turned out. The crust was a little thicker than a standard PJ pizza crust, but only slightly, and the pizza exhibited most of the characteristics of a standard PJ pizza. The size, shape, and weight were very close to a standard PJ pizza, and even its appearance was quite close, mainly because of the cheese on the rim and the overall coloration of the rim. The crust was chewy and the crumb was soft and tender. The level of sweetness of the crust was closer to the original than I have achieved before. Even the leftover slices were delicious. Unfortunately, I did not have a real PJ pizza on hand to do a more careful comparison, but based on memory, the latest pizza was a good approximation of a real PJ pizza. I would even rate it as highly as the first successful PJ clone pizza described and shown in Reply 2. And the best part is that the dough can be made and used in a two-day period.

In your case, if you are intrigued about a 5-8 day PJ clone, you can try using the formulation you used but decrease the amount of yeast by about half and increase the amount of salt to 1.9%. You may have to tweak the formula hydration a bit to keep the total dough ball weight to around 20 ounces give or take a fraction of an ounce. I don't recall that anyone has done that to date.

I'm glad that you are enjoying the PJ clones. The original 2-day formulation and your 2-day formulations are easy to make in my opinion, and are among the most popular versions of the PJ dough. PJ itself cannot offer those versions because they are stuck with their commissaries and they would have to make more trips to their stores on a weekly basis. At present, PJ makes deliveries twice a week.

Peter



Offline pepapi

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1121 on: December 01, 2016, 01:13:49 PM »
Excellent reply as always, thank you.  I had tried it (5 day clone) once upon a time but I forgot what it turned out like.  One question I have for you though, is how do i make a more tender rim?  I can competently shape the skins now and have no issues getting it nice and round with a decent rim but it's sometimes a bit on the tougher/denser side.  Am I overworking the rim?  I also suspect that my 1 year old IDY is starting to degrade somewhat and I think might be why I barely got any big bubbles this time, whereas I normally have to dough dock it.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1122 on: December 01, 2016, 03:20:30 PM »
Excellent reply as always, thank you.  I had tried it (5 day clone) once upon a time but I forgot what it turned out like.  One question I have for you though, is how do i make a more tender rim?  I can competently shape the skins now and have no issues getting it nice and round with a decent rim but it's sometimes a bit on the tougher/denser side.  Am I overworking the rim?  I also suspect that my 1 year old IDY is starting to degrade somewhat and I think might be why I barely got any big bubbles this time, whereas I normally have to dough dock it.
pepapi,

It helps not to overwork the rim once it has been formed. In the PJ stores, workers use dockers and they don't confine the docking to the area inside the rim. They just steamroll over the entire skin, including the rim. I question the logic of doing that since it can flatten the rim and have it riddled with holes. In a home setting, you can just dock inside the rim. In fact, you may not have to dock at all. If I were to guess, I would say that using a docker at PJ stores is an obligatory step for all doughs because a fair number of dough balls are used to make skins when they have not fermented sufficiently. So, rather than training members to decide when docking is needed, they tell the workers to dock all skins. In your case, you might want to take a look at the post I directed to member Hermit at Reply 1113 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg458574#msg458574 since that post is directed to the way that PJ forms the rims of their skins.

If the measures discussed in Reply 1113 and the links referenced therein do not help you, then you might want to try the original 2-day version of the PJ clone at Reply 20 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg59217#msg59217 because that version has more oil and sugar in the formulation, and both the oil and the sugar act as tenderizers of the crust (the oil impedes evaporation of the moisture in the dough and the sugar is a hygroscopic substance that retains moisture in the dough).

Another possibility is to increase the formula hydration but for each increase of a percent in the hydration you may want to lower the amount of oil by an equal amount, and tweak the formulation a bit, if needed, to keep the dough ball weight at around 20 ounces.  As an alternative, if you are able to increase the oven temperature and bake the pizza in a shorter period of time, that should help keep the entire crust softer, but you may have to take other measures if the bottom crust is too light or the cheese is underbaked on the top side or the rim is too light. But using a screen, you can move the pizza around the oven to fix those problems, and you can also use the broiler to fix problems at the top side of the pizza. I discussed these kinds of measures in another thread at Reply 45 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=2223.msg20965#msg20965.

As for your yeast, whether it is still viable will depend on how you stored the yeast. The older the yeast gets, and/or if it is not stored in the optimum way, there will be some degradation of the yeast's performance. However, sometimes using more yeast will compensate for that underperformance. But, if in doubt, you may just want to use new yeast. But, either way, I would be surprised if the toughness of the rim was due to the yeast.

Peter


Offline pepapi

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1123 on: December 01, 2016, 03:51:12 PM »
pepapi,

It helps not to overwork the rim once it has been formed. In the PJ stores, workers use dockers and they don't confine the docking to the area inside the rim. They just steamroll over the entire skin, including the rim. I question the logic of doing that since it can flatten the rim and have it riddled with holes. In a home setting, you can just dock inside the rim. In fact, you may not have to dock at all. If I were to guess, I would say that using a docker at PJ stores is an obligatory step for all doughs because a fair number of dough balls are used to make skins when they have not fermented sufficiently. So, rather than training members to decide when docking is needed, they tell the workers to dock all skins. In your case, you might want to take a look at the post I directed to member Hermit at Reply 1113 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg458574#msg458574 since that post is directed to the way that PJ forms the rims of their skins.

If the measures discussed in Reply 1113 and the links referenced therein do not help you, then you might want to try the original 2-day version of the PJ clone at Reply 20 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg59217#msg59217 because that version has more oil and sugar in the formulation, and both the oil and the sugar act as tenderizers of the crust (the oil impedes evaporation of the moisture in the dough and the sugar is a hygroscopic substance that retains moisture in the dough).

Another possibility is to increase the formula hydration but for each increase of a percent in the hydration you may want to lower the amount of oil by an equal amount, and tweak the formulation a bit, if needed, to keep the dough ball weight at around 20 ounces.  As an alternative, if you are able to increase the oven temperature and bake the pizza in a shorter period of time, that should help keep the entire crust softer, but you may have to take other measures if the bottom crust is too light or the cheese is underbaked on the top side or the rim is too light. But using a screen, you can move the pizza around the oven to fix those problems, and you can also use the broiler to fix problems at the top side of the pizza. I discussed these kinds of measures in another thread at Reply 45 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=2223.msg20965#msg20965.

As for your yeast, whether it is still viable will depend on how you stored the yeast. The older the yeast gets, and/or if it is not stored in the optimum way, there will be some degradation of the yeast's performance. However, sometimes using more yeast will compensate for that underperformance. But, if in doubt, you may just want to use new yeast. But, either way, I would be surprised if the toughness of the rim was due to the yeast.

Peter

Excellent post as usual, a wealth of information.

Also, pizza steel.  I have a 1/4" steel but have hesitated to use it for the entire bake (just at the end).  Will the amount of sugar just wreck the bottom if i try to get the steel to 550 or similar (oven goes to 500 but i have a very powerful broiler that might push it to 550 or 600 if needed)?  I could maybe try a 5 minute bake on the steel at 500 and then transfer to screen for the rest, with convection to get the toppings up to par and maybe having the pizza up higher in the oven, again to compensate for the bottom cooking quicker on the steel than the top.

I have definitely felt the need to dough dock this one in the past, and I know I make it identically everytime, so I think I'm throwing out that yeast regardless and getting a new one.

How's this for the recipe?  Looks like less sugar but more oil.

Robin Hood Bread Flour (100%):355.4 g  |  12.54 oz
Water (56.5%):200.8 g  |  7.08 oz
IDY (0.28%):1 g | 0.04 oz | 0 lbs | 0.33 tsp
Salt (1.75%):6.22 g | 0.22 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.11 tsp
Vegetable (sunflower) Oil (7.3%):25.94 g | 0.92 oz | 5.71 tsp | 1.9 tbsp
Sugar (4.2%):14.93 g | 0.53 oz | 0.03 lbs | 3.74 tsp
Total (170.03%):604.28 g | 21.32 oz | 1.33 lbs

In comparison to the one I just did:

Robin Hood Bread Flour (100%): 339.29 g | 11.97 oz
Water (56%): 190 g | 6.7 oz
IDY (0.28%): 0.95 g | 0.03 oz | 0.32 tsp
Salt (1.9%): 6.45 g | 0.23 oz | 1.16 tsp
Vegetable (sunflower) Oil (5.55%): 18.83 g | 0.66 oz | 4.15 tsp
Sugar (5.89%): 19.98 g | 0.7 oz | 5.01 tsp
Total (169.62%): 575.51 g | 20.3 oz | 1.27 lbs


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1124 on: December 01, 2016, 05:17:15 PM »
pepapi,

I can recall only one member talking about using a steel, but I don't recall that he mentioned the thickness or whether he actually used it to make a PJ clone. However, I don't believe that it is the optimum substrate or carrier to use to make a PJ clone because of the high amount of sugar and the possibility that the bottom crust will become burned before the rest of the pizza is done. Of course, you could watch the bottom like a hawk and once the bottom has the desired color move the pizza to a higher oven rack position to get more top heat. By the time you would make that move, the pizza should be well set. You would also be able to use the broiler. If you ever decide to give the above approach a try, please tell us how the pizza turned out. Because I was trying to clone a PJ dough and pizza, I used screens. However, we have had a few members who have used pizza stones, and my advice has been to watch the bottom very carefully so that it does not burn, again because of the high sugar level.

Looking at the two dough formulations you posted, they appear to be correct. You are also correct that the first formulation has more sugar. In arriving at that version, I used an ingredients statement from PJ that indicated that there was more sugar in the dough than oil. That ingredients statement was not an official one under the U.S. FDA (Food and Drug Administration) rules and regulations but the statement was all that I had. But I could not conclude that there was actually more sugar than oil in the PJ dough when I analyzed the Nutritional Information that PJ posted at its website. The Sugar nutrient in dough is tricky because it includes not only sugar that is added to the dough but also natural Sugars that are created during fermentation. The reporting requirements are about to change if the FDA has its way since new regulations will require that the ingredient statements indicate what sugars are actually added to the product in question. Companies that add a lot of sugar to their products are not happy with this change because they don't want to highlight to their consumers exactly how much sugar they are getting, especially since sugar is now considered a nutritional villain and viewed as the cause of a lot of our medical problems.

You will also note that the dough weight in the first formulation you posted is around 21 ounces. That was the best number I could come up with when I originally posted the formulation. It was later that I learned from an article that Norma found that the actual amount of dough was 20 ounces (for the 14" size) give or take a fraction of an ounce (most likely due to manufacturing tolerances). So, if you want to try that formulation, you might want to use the expanded dough calculating tool but use a dough ball weight of 20 ounces plus any suitable bowl residue compensation value. But, that said, I really don't think you will notice the difference, and especially if you do not use a bowl residue compensation.

The second dough formulation you posted does indeed have more sugar than oil, and now conforms to the original PJ ingredients statement. But, for the reasons mentioned above, the separation of the added sugar quantitatively from the total Sugars as given in the PJ Nutritional Information is still hard to ascertain. But, based on current information, I believe that the second dough formulation is closer to the real thing (but for the yeast quantity) than the first dough formulation you posted in your last post.

Peter

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Offline russian_pizza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1125 on: December 08, 2016, 09:40:09 AM »
Greetings to all those participating in this topic. This is already my second year of following this topic, but I was only reading, so I decided to register. To tell my own story.
I am a businessman from a small town in Russia. Several years ago I decided to open a pizza place that would mostly make deliveries in my small town.
Since I completely lacked any experience in the restaurant industry, I decided to take some entry level jobs at McDonald's and Papa John Pizza in Moscow. With some experience, I started a project
to open a pizzeria. We have already been operating for almost 2 months, I simply want to find out how to make Papa John's crazy dough.
I ask you to help me unravel this secret recipe, in a way to make it with ingredients that are easy to find in Russia.
I'll now try to write our test recipe and how we prepare it: - flour (5 kilograms) - water (2600 grams, at 13 - 14 degrees centigrade) - salt (100 grams) - sugar (200 grams)
- special pizza yeast (11 grams)
- sunflower oil (260 grams)
Knead it well, for about 15 minutes. Then the dough is put in the refrigerator at a temperature of 4-6 degrees Centigrade. A minimum of 48 hours.
A little later, I'll show you how we use the oven and which oven settings. And I will show some photos of the finished pizzas.
In the meantime, I would like to hear your suggestions for ingredients, and more importantly your advice on how I should change the recipe.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1126 on: December 08, 2016, 05:55:08 PM »
russian-pizza,

I have a few questions, but first this is what your recipe looks like in baker's percents:

100% Flour, 5000 grams
52% Water, 2600 grams
2% Salt, 200 grams
4% Sugar, 200 grams
0.22% Special pizza yeast, 11 grams
5.2% Sunflower oil, 260 grams

Can you tell me where or how you came up with the above recipe?

Also, can you tell me what kind or brand of flour you are using in the above recipe?

And can you tell us what a special pizza yeast is, and what it constitutes? Maybe you can provide a link that describes that product.

Peter




Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1127 on: December 08, 2016, 07:34:58 PM »
For a recent example of a two-day (cold fermented) PJ clone pizza by member Andy, see Reply 8070 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=26286.msg459721#msg459721, and Reply 8076 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=26286.msg459789#msg459789.

Peter

Offline russian_pizza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1128 on: December 09, 2016, 02:48:26 PM »
russian-pizza,

I have a few questions, but first this is what your recipe looks like in baker's percents:

100% Flour, 5000 grams
52% Water, 2600 grams
2% Salt, 200 grams
4% Sugar, 200 grams
0.22% Special pizza yeast, 11 grams
5.2% Sunflower oil, 260 grams

Can you tell me where or how you came up with the above recipe?

Also, can you tell me what kind or brand of flour you are using in the above recipe?

And can you tell us what a special pizza yeast is, and what it constitutes? Maybe you can provide a link that describes that product.

Peter
This recipe is used by one network, it is publicly available on the Internet.

Below I will try to translate the composition of flour and yeast which we use:

Flour:
highest quality whole wheat baking flour
Shelf life 12 months
Nutritional value/caloric content per 100 grams of product:
Carbohydrates-71 grams
Protein-10 grams
Fat-1 gram

Yeast (common), these are also present:
Ingredients: especially selected strain of yeast (Saccharomyces cerevisiae), emulsifier E491.
There is a link to a full description of these yeasts (in Russian, you can use Google Translator): http://lesaffre.ru/?p=404
Yeast for pizza, from the same manufacturer
Description in Russian: http://lesaffre.ru/?p=352

We started to use version 2, because it has better reviews.

Offline russian_pizza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1129 on: December 09, 2016, 03:58:36 PM »
Also, I want to add one point about flour:

This manufacturer has special flour for pizza (I don't know how it differs from the regular one, most likely there's a tad bit more protein content).

Just want to note that on the website of the flour producer, in the section "Partners", there is a "Pappa Johns" logo. This means that we are on the right track. here is link:
http://www.melkombinat3.ru/ru/partners

It means that Pappa John's uses the flour from this manufacturer in its pizzerias in Russia and is not importing it from the United States. But it is quite possible that it imports yeasts. Unfortunately, I have no information on what kind of yeast is used to make Pappa Jonn's pizza dough in Russia.



The trial batch of the special flour will arrive next week. I will definitely write to you about the difference in the dough. If you would like, I can do a photo- or a video report either from the new flour or, from the old one.

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1130 on: December 10, 2016, 09:45:49 AM »
Russian-pizza,

Can you cite the link where you found the recipe? The baker's percents look like they could work if the flour is a low protein flour. But I'd like to see the recipe for more details.

I agree that the miller you cited is most likely the supplier to Papa John's in Russia. And the flour would be in bulk, quite likely a Myka flour as shown at the bottom of the page at http://www.melkombinat3.ru/en/bakery-flour-premium-quality-en.

Can you clarify again which Lasaffre yeast product you are using? Maybe I can find more information at the U.S. Lasaffre website. For example, is the yeast you are using the one that produces an onion taste?

Anything you can provide through the use of photos, videos or reports would be helpful.

Peter

Offline russian_pizza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1131 on: December 27, 2016, 04:14:33 AM »
Hello, Peter. I apologize for such a long silence, I had a lot to be done.
Dough recipe which I wrote at the beginning, this is not a recipe of PJ's dough.
It was a recipe of other pizzerias. I saw this recipe in some videos on Youtube.

About yeast:

Here's link to the yeast of manufacturer (you can get any) request is the translation into English using google translate (I can not translate this complex text):
-
http://lesaffre.ru/?page_id=214

Here's 2 species of yeast that we use:

1) ref:
http://lesaffre.ru/?p=404
2) http://lesaffre.ru/?p=352

version 2 bought for trial, employees and customers liked it more than the first one.

Now, about the experiments with the test:
We made 2 different mixing according to links that you provided above, please check whether I have correctly translated the baker's percentages in the program:
The first option (IDY (as indicated by the yeast) (0.28%):
Second Embodiment (0.25% IDY):
« Last Edit: December 27, 2016, 04:23:23 AM by russian_pizza »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1132 on: December 28, 2016, 01:42:35 PM »
russian_pizza,

This looks to be the translation of the first link that you provided:

http://www.microsofttranslator.com/bv.aspx?from=&to=en&a=http%3A%2F%2Flesaffre.ru%2F%3Fpage_id%3D214.

And these appear to be the translations for the other two links you provided:

http://www.microsofttranslator.com/bv.aspx?from=&to=en&a=http%3A%2F%2Flesaffre.ru%2F%3Fp%3D404, and

http://www.microsofttranslator.com/bv.aspx?from=&to=en&a=http%3A%2F%2Flesaffre.ru%2F%3Fp%3D352.

From what you have posted, it appears that the IDY is preferred over the fresh yeast. If you wish to try a two day PJ clone dough with IDY, you may want to use either the recipe given at Reply 20 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg59217#msg59217 or an updated version as given at Reply 585 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6758.msg273667.html#msg273667. In both cases, the IDY is 0.28%. However, the values for the other ingredients are different.

I hope I have answered your questions properly.

Peter


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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1133 on: January 10, 2017, 07:52:56 AM »
can i use sunflower or corn oil ?

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1134 on: January 10, 2017, 08:08:52 AM »
can i use sunflower or corn oil ?
werty20,

Corn oil in large amounts may yield a flavor that may be too pronounced. So, as between the two oils, I personally would go with the sunflower seed oil even though it is harder to find and is more expensive than other oils, at least here in the U.S. Sunflower seed oil is the oil that PJ uses in its pizza sauce and it is high up in the ingredients statement (see http://www.papajohns.com/company/papa-johns-ingredients.html) so it should be a mild and inoffensive oil. But to satisfy your palate, you might do a couple of experiments using both oils and report back on your findings that may be of value to other members who may want to try other oils.

Peter

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Offline wrightme

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1135 on: January 10, 2017, 02:11:43 PM »
I ordered sunflower oil from Amazon walmart online.  The day it showed up, I found the same brand locally at Walmart.   :)
« Last Edit: January 11, 2017, 12:32:09 PM by wrightme »

Offline werty20

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1136 on: January 11, 2017, 02:14:35 AM »

After giving the matter of an emergency PJ clone dough a fair amount of thought, I used the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html to come up with the following “emergency” dough formulation:

King Arthur Bread Flour/VWG Blend (100%):
Water (56.5%):
IDY (0.80%):
Salt (1.5%):
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (7.3%):
Honey (5%):
Total (171.1%):
371.81 g  |  13.12 oz | 0.82 lbs
210.07 g  |  7.41 oz | 0.46 lbs
2.97 g | 0.1 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.99 tsp | 0.33 tbsp
5.58 g | 0.2 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1 tsp | 0.33 tbsp
27.14 g | 0.96 oz | 0.06 lbs | 5.98 tsp | 1.99 tbsp
18.59 g | 0.66 oz | 0.04 lbs | 2.66 tsp | 0.89 tbsp
636.17 g | 22.44 oz | 1.4 lbs | TF = N/A

The oil was then added to the water/salt/honey mixture. .

i read many time we add the oil later to help the flour absorb more water , its ok to add it like this ?

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1137 on: January 11, 2017, 12:12:53 PM »
I ordered sunflower oil from Amazon.  The day before it showed up, I found the same brand locally at Walmart.   :)
wrightme,

While I was at a local Kroger supermarket this morning, I counted about 86 different brands of oil, of all types. If there were multiple bottle sizes of any given oil, I counted that oil only once. But no sunflower oil. It's good to know that WalMart carries it.

Peter

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1138 on: January 11, 2017, 12:22:06 PM »
i read many time we add the oil later to help the flour absorb more water , its ok to add it like this ?
werty20,

From a science standpoint, for the type of pizza dough in question it is best to add the oil later in the mixing process. However, I discovered that when I have tried to incorporate more than, say, a few percent of oil in dough, late in the mixing process, the dough does not absorb it well and the dough just spins around with a lot of the oil on the outer surface of the dough. Maybe it is because of the small amount of dough but I have to incorporate all of the oil by hand. I did not have to do that when I added the oil to the water early in the mixing process as I described in this thread. All of this said, I wondered how Papa John's does it in its commissaries. It would seem simpler operationally and procedurally just to add the oil to the water.

You should feel free to try both methods and report back to the membership what you learn.

Peter

Offline wrightme

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1139 on: January 11, 2017, 12:50:50 PM »
wrightme,

While I was at a local Kroger supermarket this morning, I counted about 86 different brands of oil, of all types. If there were multiple bottle sizes of any given oil, I counted that oil only once. But no sunflower oil. It's good to know that WalMart carries it.

Peter

Pretty sure it was this one, can check when I am back home.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Authentic-Menu-Imported-Pure-Sunflower-Oil-33.8-fl-oz/47002043



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