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Author Topic: Kamado -> DIY pizza oven -> buy a new Pizza oven today  (Read 928 times)

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Offline paddywide

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Kamado -> DIY pizza oven -> buy a new Pizza oven today
« on: February 12, 2021, 04:32:01 AM »
1 year ago I bought Char grill Kamado for slow cook. I found it can make pizza as well. So I learn and try to make Neapolitan pizza. It was good, because it can go up to 350 C. Compare 240 Ccelsius electric home oven, it was a big grown up. I was satisfy the pizza which it just needs 2 mins to cook, and taste yum. The only problem is the fire goes from the bottom, and it is hard to control the base stone temp. The first pie is uncooked, the second is perfect, the third one is burnt. It is ok. I can work around it by placing an extra stone on top of it if too hot. In fact there is no need to buy another extra oven.

Until I saw there is a kind of compact oven in the market which advertised temp can go up to 550 C. Then I start browsing this forum to dig deep into it. I start from Ooni, it is too small to rotate the pizza, koda 16 is good, but it is too expensive in Australia, $960. Then I saw some one recommend Ardore, it even more expansive. I can't afford to buy it as a toy. So I decide to make one. I have few options, send my design to a China factory to build a custom make oven, or make a clay pizza oven (use only clay to make the oven shape and put in a kiln), use just fire brick to build a very simple rectangular oven. I tend to make a custom stainless steel oven which will be nice and won't cost much.

I keep doing the research about the shape, flue, the size, everything. Until today I went to a shop and saw a Matador wood fired pizza oven, originally $499, it downs to $350 because it missing the trolley base and handle, it only has the oven body and the flue. I talked to the staff and said the price doesn't attractive due to the discount is the value of missing part. To those missing parts product it should have more discounts. He agreed to give another $50 discount, While I were thinking, he gave another $50 down. I were happy and bought it. It just $250. The size is a bit bigger than the compact ones. the stainless steel internal is 57 * 60cm. This means it will cost more fuel and takes longer to heat up. I can't wait to start my first cook. The oven is heavy. it weights 85 KG including the legs and everything.

Offline 02ebz06

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Re: Kamado -> DIY pizza oven -> buy a new Pizza oven today
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2021, 11:24:21 AM »
Sounds like a good buy.
Let us know how it works.
Bruce here... My toys --> FGM 800-B Pizza Oven, Pellet Grill, Pellet Smoker, Propane Griddle, Propane Grill

Offline paddywide

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Re: Kamado -> DIY pizza oven -> buy a new Pizza oven today
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2021, 07:25:00 AM »
Sounds like a good buy.
Let us know how it works.
Sure.

I bought a brand new table from a second-hand website for just $35. Perfectly fit. metal leg, wood top, 18kg for an 80 *80cm table. Very sturdy. Also bought another small table to lay in outdoor as a base when it is working. Due to my plastic shed is close to the flue (about 50cm apart), I worried it will burn it.

I unscrew the back of the oven, there is 3cm thick white cotton-like insulation material covered it. I guess it is ceramic fibre. The outer body should be coated steel, the internal look like stainless steel but there is a little magnified. it is 1.2-1.3mm thick. The build looks good. I am happy with it. I may start to use this weekend.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2021, 07:28:25 AM by paddywide »

Offline 02ebz06

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Re: Kamado -> DIY pizza oven -> buy a new Pizza oven today
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2021, 12:07:15 PM »
If you are worried about heat getting to the plastic shed, get a piece of cement board at your local home supply place.
They are 3' x5' (about 92cm x 154cm).   At least they are at the Home Depot store here is USA.
You could paint it with a high temp paint to match your shed.
Bruce here... My toys --> FGM 800-B Pizza Oven, Pellet Grill, Pellet Smoker, Propane Griddle, Propane Grill

Offline paddywide

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Re: Kamado -> DIY pizza oven -> buy a new Pizza oven today
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2021, 06:27:06 AM »
If you are worried about heat getting to the plastic shed, get a piece of cement board at your local home supply place.
They are 3' x5' (about 92cm x 154cm).   At least they are at the Home Depot store here is USA.
You could paint it with a high temp paint to match your shed.

Thanks for the suggestion. My shed is transparent. My CFO said just lift the oven outside the shed as we only cook once for every 2 weeks.

This oven internal is 56 * 62cm, a little smaller than thePizzone  70 *70 which it has been mentioned many times in this forum. But the price is huge different.

I have 2 questions. The flue is 2 layers, do I need to insert insulation in between the gap?
I just found today there are couples of nail size green mould. Because it is not stainless steel, I guess it will get rusty as time goes by. Do I need to do something to prevent it? like spray some kind of anti rusty paint?
« Last Edit: February 17, 2021, 06:29:28 AM by paddywide »

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Offline 02ebz06

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Re: Kamado -> DIY pizza oven -> buy a new Pizza oven today
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2021, 11:20:31 AM »
Thanks for the suggestion. My shed is transparent. My CFO said just lift the oven outside the shed as we only cook once for every 2 weeks.

This oven internal is 56 * 62cm, a little smaller than thePizzone  70 *70 which it has been mentioned many times in this forum. But the price is huge different.

I have 2 questions. The flue is 2 layers, do I need to insert insulation in between the gap?
I just found today there are couples of nail size green mould. Because it is not stainless steel, I guess it will get rusty as time goes by. Do I need to do something to prevent it? like spray some kind of anti rusty paint?

Answer to your first question, no.  Do not put insulation in there.

For 2nd question, Try a high temp BBQ grill paint. I think some protect to 2000f.
Would need good cleaning to remove and oil and rust first.
Keep it dry, cover it when not using.
Bruce here... My toys --> FGM 800-B Pizza Oven, Pellet Grill, Pellet Smoker, Propane Griddle, Propane Grill

Offline paddywide

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Re: Kamado -> DIY pizza oven -> buy a new Pizza oven today
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2021, 09:36:17 PM »
Answer to your first question, no.  Do not put insulation in there.

For 2nd question, Try a high temp BBQ grill paint. I think some protect to 2000f.
Would need good cleaning to remove and oil and rust first.
Keep it dry, cover it when not using.

May I know the reason why don't put insulation in there? I read some of the articles. It says the hotter the flue, the stronger suction of drawing the smoke out of the chimney. Here is one point for sure, it looks ugly.

Offline barryvabeach

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Re: Kamado -> DIY pizza oven -> buy a new Pizza oven today
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2021, 07:14:59 AM »
The outer pipe is for safety reasons. The inner pipe will got hot from flue gasses.  Since the outer pipe has holes in it,  air will circulate evenly, and it will be much cooler and won't be as dangerous if you brush up against it.  If you put insulation between the two pipes, the outer one will get much hotter because it won't have airflow to cool it off.

Offline 02ebz06

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Re: Kamado -> DIY pizza oven -> buy a new Pizza oven today
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2021, 01:19:43 PM »
The outer pipe is for safety reasons. The inner pipe will got hot from flue gasses.  Since the outer pipe has holes in it,  air will circulate evenly, and it will be much cooler and won't be as dangerous if you brush up against it.  If you put insulation between the two pipes, the outer one will get much hotter because it won't have airflow to cool it off.

+1
Bruce here... My toys --> FGM 800-B Pizza Oven, Pellet Grill, Pellet Smoker, Propane Griddle, Propane Grill

Offline paddywide

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Re: Kamado -> DIY pizza oven -> buy a new Pizza oven today
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2021, 06:47:33 AM »
Found out the Chimeny is Stainless steel, the chamber isn't. So I will return the paint.

This afternoon I start the first burn. I use thin and about 25cm long kindling which tonight I found out it is supposed for starter. I put 6 to 8 sticks at a time. It's so quick to get the chamber to 300C, probably 10-12 mins. But it is only get up to 300, can't go up more. I tried to just open a little bit on the door, The temp goes up a bit. Then I totally closed it. I thought it will suffocate. But actually, it doesn't and the temp goes up to 400C. Once I open the door, the temp drops quickly. The kindling only last 8-10 mins. I have to keep adding them.

The brick heats up slowly. In the first 10-20 mins, it just goes up to 250C. Because the heat doesn't go through the bottom of the brick, it drops quickly if the fire is down. After half hour I decide to replace it with charcoal and close the door. Charcoal has longer burning, and it will heat up the brick with the minum fuel.

The oven has lots of heat escape, at the top closed to the back end, the outer oven is around 110C (in the 29C summer afternoon). The front door doesn't have insulation, it is hot as well. If I insert insulation and use more wood I guess it can go up to 500C.

It takes lots of wood to maintain the temp. It has lot's of ash which I don't know how to clean it.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2021, 06:51:27 AM by paddywide »

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Offline 02ebz06

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Re: Kamado -> DIY pizza oven -> buy a new Pizza oven today
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2021, 12:23:16 PM »
If I'm seeing it right, it looks like you have some gaps and unevenness in the floor bricks.
You might want to try to correct that.
Makes it difficult using a peel it it hits a brick and stops.

You can buy kits of pizza tools - peels, brush, shovel etc...
You also need a metal bucket with metal lid for the ashes.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2021, 10:48:04 AM by 02ebz06 »
Bruce here... My toys --> FGM 800-B Pizza Oven, Pellet Grill, Pellet Smoker, Propane Griddle, Propane Grill

Offline paddywide

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Re: Kamado -> DIY pizza oven -> buy a new Pizza oven today
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2021, 06:24:44 AM »
If I'm seeing it right, it looks like you have some gaps and unevenness in the floor bricks.
You might want to try to correct that.
Makes it difficult using a peel it it hits a brick and stops.

You can by kits of pizza tools - peels, brush, shovel etc...
You also need a metal bucket with metal lid for the ashes.

Yes, the uneven floor is caused by the different height brick, there are 1-2mm difference, I replace part of my brick. It looks better. It is still not smooth, I may polish it later.

Tonight I use it to cook pizza. Pretty disappointed. I buy another handwood. It is a bug chunk. It burns slow, at least slower than the kindling (see the photo). The temp is tough to goes up to 350C. I decide to cook pizza(my kids can't wait). It takes longer to cook compare to Kamado at350C. and the edge of the pizza is light brown or white. the bottom is white(it is cooked). The topping is cooked faster than the edge whereas in Kamado both cook at the same speed.

I have put 2 big handwood inside plus some of the charcoal. But it warms up very slow. I guess the poor insulation leaks so many heats. when internal is 300C, the top oven body can reach 60-80C. And the design isn't good. the mouth is big and more than 63% of the internal heigh.

Can anyone suggest whether I should close the door to let it burn with the chimney opened? How much handwood should I put in the chamber at a time? Do you guys use charcoal mixed with handwood as fuel?

So far I can tell is that it takes lots of fuel. If it cost a lot on the fuel I can go to restaurant. Also I can use my Kamado to cook it very well and quick, and just use a little charcoal. 

Offline wotavidone

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Re: Kamado -> DIY pizza oven -> buy a new Pizza oven today
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2021, 07:29:19 AM »
My two bob's worth:
I've recently cooked in a very similar oven. It was bigger though - maybe 70cm wide and 80 cm deep inside.
This style of oven isn't as easy to cook in as a full-on pompeii style brick oven.

I didn't rate it very highly, to be honest.
If I owned it, I'd modify it.

I'd certainly close the opening in a bit. I'd get a bit of stainless steel sheet and make that opening a lot lower, and possibly narrower.
Unfortunately the flue exits from the main chamber, so that heat loss is always going to be there.

My mate's oven has an ash tray at the rear. The centre fire brick in the back row has been replaced by a grill that lets ash fall through into tray.
It leaks a lot of cold air in.
Dr. Google says your oven doesn't have that, and I think that is a good thing.

Skip those funny looking trays for the fire. Light the fire directly on the bricks if you want to get them really hot, then scrape the fire to one side and add extra wood to keep a live flame going the whole time you cook.

The temperature gauge is pretty much worthless. My mates never read much more than 200C all day.
Get yourself a cheap IR gun. Make sure it has a range of 0-500C at least.
Something like this:
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Digital-Thermometer-Infrared-Handheld-Temperature-Gun-Non-Contact-IR-Laser-AU/124537783770?hash=item1cff07c5da:g:HZkAAOSwN7hf-WC-&frcectupt=true

The firebrick in your oven looks the same as my mate's. I thought it was quite conductive. I suggest if you can measure 380C or more with an IR gun, it's probably hot enough. However, on my mate's oen at least, I found it necessary to scrape the fire back over the cooking area and recharge the bricks every 3 or 4 pizzas.

Firewood size is important. The big piece of timber in your photo is too big in my opinion.

I am an advocate for using the thin bits the firewood cutters pass over.
They can be used to make a "big scary fire". Lots of flames to really get the heat into the oven quickly, and when the baking starts you can throw a couple of the thin pieces in at a time to keep a rolling flame going. The thick bits don't do the job right, especially when you are cooking.

Your kindling size pieces as shown in your photograph are about my preferred size thickness. But, yours looks like pine. Timber from old pallets maybe?
OK for heating it up, but switch to eucalypt/gum tree before you start cooking.

I like using thinnings from the various species of eucalypt around my area.
I have a mallee tree in my front yard (e. porosa?) that needs regular trimming to keep it away from the power and phone lines.
I strip all the thinned bits and dry them for pizza oven fuel.

Time and practice, mate.
At least you haven't paid the $1200 that my mate paid for his!
« Last Edit: February 20, 2021, 08:15:43 PM by wotavidone »
Mick

Offline wotavidone

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Re: Kamado -> DIY pizza oven -> buy a new Pizza oven today
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2021, 07:53:28 AM »
By the way, I've never bought firewood.
Even here in arid SA, there is always fallen trees, trimmings, dropped branches, etc.
It is one of the eucalypts' more endearing habits - a branch dies, dries, then falls off.
Mick

Offline paddywide

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Re: Kamado -> DIY pizza oven -> buy a new Pizza oven today
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2021, 06:01:34 AM »
My two bob's worth:
I've recently cooked in a very similar oven. It was bigger though - maybe 70cm wide and 80 cm deep inside.
This style of oven isn't as easy to cook in as a full-on pompeii style brick oven.

I didn't rate it very highly, to be honest.
If I owned it, I'd modify it.

I'd certainly close the opening in a bit. I'd get a bit of stainless steel sheet and make that opening a lot lower, and possibly narrower.
Unfortunately the flue exits from the main chamber, so that heat loss is always going to be there.

My mate's oven has an ash tray at the rear. The centre fire brick in the back row has been replaced by a grill that lets ash fall through into tray.
It leaks a lot of cold air in.
Dr. Google says your oven doesn't have that, and I think that is a good thing.

Skip those funny looking trays for the fire. Light the fire directly on the bricks if you want to get them really hot, then scrape the fire to one side and add extra wood to keep a live flame going the whole time you cook.

The temperature gauge is pretty much worthless. My mates never read much more than 200C all day.
Get yourself a cheap IR gun. Make sure it has a range of 0-500C at least.
Something like this:
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Digital-Thermometer-Infrared-Handheld-Temperature-Gun-Non-Contact-IR-Laser-AU/124537783770?hash=item1cff07c5da:g:HZkAAOSwN7hf-WC-&frcectupt=true

The firebrick in your oven looks the same as my mate's. I thought it was quite conductive. I suggest if you can measure 380C or more with an IR gun, it's probably hot enough. However, on my mate's oen at least, I found it necessary to scrape the fire back over the cooking area and recharge the bricks every 3 or 4 pizzas.

Firewood size is important. The big piece of timber in your photo is too big in my opinion.

I am an advocate for using the thin bits the firewood cutters pass over.
They can be used to make a "big scary fire". Lots of flames to really get the heat into the oven quickly, and when the baking starts you can throw a couple of the thin pieces in at a time to keep a rolling flame going. The thick bits don't do the job right, especially when you are cooking.

Your kindling size pieces as shown in your photograph are about my preferred size thickness. But, yours looks like pine. Timber from old pallets maybe?
OK for heating it up, but switch to eucalypt/gum tree before you start cooking.

I like using thinnings from the various species of eucalypt around my area.
I have a mallee tree in my front yard (e. porosa?) that needs regular trimming to keep it away from the power and phone lines.
I strip all the thinned bits and dry them for pizza oven fuel.

Time and practice, mate.
At least you haven't paid the $1200 that my mate paid for his!

I completely close the door until I put the pizza in as this will make it hotter. The door is attached to the oven floor so that I can't leave a little gap from the bottom of the door. I will make another door to hang it, and only leave a small hole for the air. The purpose of tray is for holding the ash. I do have an IR gun. The temperature gauge measure the air temperature at the top, the gun measure the floor. The gauge looks have a correct reading to me, as it always higher than the floor.

I will try to cut the big piece wood into the small one as you suggested. Both of them are bought from Bunnings https://www.bunnings.com.au/hot-shots-20kg-firewood_p3170674 and https://www.bunnings.com.au/hot-shots-10kg-kindling_p3170526 I am living in Sydney not near the bush. It doesn't have much falling trees. Does falling branch needs to be dried before use? I have a lots of bamboo in my backyard, not sure whether it is suitable to burn. I don't know what kind of the wood of kindling. It just burns very well.

I don't know where to get the eucalypt/gum, on gumtree.com there is no purely eucalypt/gum firewood, all of them are mixed wood near me. 

Last night I finished the cook at 8pm, I put full charcoal into those 2 trays, close the door and let it burn. It leaves me to surprise that the oven keeps maintaining 300C for almost 4 hrs(IR gun reads closed temp on the floor). I went to sleep, don't know how long it can keep. I have a thought, to heat up the oven I can use  charcoal to let it burn and keep the door closed. It will goes up to 300C but it will takes time. I guess 1.5 - 2 hrs.

This morning I move the oven back to another table. It leaves a burned mark on the table where it cooks pizza. I may need to improve the insulation.

Although this oven takes time to heat up, but the floor temp is even, there is no big difference between the back and the front.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2021, 06:03:15 AM by paddywide »

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Offline 02ebz06

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Re: Kamado -> DIY pizza oven -> buy a new Pizza oven today
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2021, 11:02:32 AM »
You could put some bricks under the corners and still use that table.
Would allow air flow so table doesn't burn.

I'm sure you know this, but what ever kind of wood you get, make sure it is a hardwood.
Soft burns too fast and doesn't provide the heat hardwood does.
Bruce here... My toys --> FGM 800-B Pizza Oven, Pellet Grill, Pellet Smoker, Propane Griddle, Propane Grill

Offline wotavidone

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Re: Kamado -> DIY pizza oven -> buy a new Pizza oven today
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2021, 06:23:38 AM »
Holy crap! $15.98 for 10kg kindling is $1600 per ton. Holy crap!

Dry (really dry) bamboo makes great kindling.

I visited Gumtree and searched firewood in the Greater Sydney area.
Most of the wood for sale is eucalyptus.
They are species such as iron bark (eucalyptus sideroxylon), yellow box (eucalyptus melliadora), redgum (eucalyptus camaldulensis), etc.
They might indeed be mixed, but that doesn't matter.
Anyway, I was being specific about eucalyptus because the other very common timber is pine, particularly pinus radiata.

Pines, unlike eucalyptus, are softwoods and contain some rather nasty creosotes/tars/resins that will taint your food and coat the inside of your chimney (bad).

The other type of tree common to Australia is the various acacia species.
I don't bother with these timbers. "Acacia" is a very broad church.
Some stink when burned. Some are very light. Some rank among the heaviest timbers on the planet. Some are endangered. Some, such as mulga, would make good firewood, but being arid-zone species they won't be cheap in Sydney.
Some, such as blackwood, are quite valuable for furniture making, etc. Blackwood sawdust is an irritant. Who knows what would happen if it was used for pizza oven fuel.
So I skip the acacias.
 
If you run your fire in those trays you don't get ash on your bricks, but they do cut down the amount of radiant heat that impacts your floor.
I know this from experience, another friend had a similar arrangement. He couldn't get his floor hot until he took my advice and tried it without the tray.
Mick

Offline paddywide

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Re: Kamado -> DIY pizza oven -> buy a new Pizza oven today
« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2021, 05:20:56 AM »
You could put some bricks under the corners and still use that table.
Would allow air flow so table doesn't burn.

I'm sure you know this, but what ever kind of wood you get, make sure it is a hardwood.
Soft burns too fast and doesn't provide the heat hardwood does.

Sure, I will avoid softwood.


Holy crap! $15.98 for 10kg kindling is $1600 per ton. Holy crap!

Dry (really dry) bamboo makes great kindling.

I visited Gumtree and searched firewood in the Greater Sydney area.
Most of the wood for sale is eucalyptus.
They are species such as iron bark (eucalyptus sideroxylon), yellow box (eucalyptus melliadora), redgum (eucalyptus camaldulensis), etc.
They might indeed be mixed, but that doesn't matter.
Anyway, I was being specific about eucalyptus because the other very common timber is pine, particularly pinus radiata.

Pines, unlike eucalyptus, are softwoods and contain some rather nasty creosotes/tars/resins that will taint your food and coat the inside of your chimney (bad).

The other type of tree common to Australia is the various acacia species.
I don't bother with these timbers. "Acacia" is a very broad church.
Some stink when burned. Some are very light. Some rank among the heaviest timbers on the planet. Some are endangered. Some, such as mulga, would make good firewood, but being arid-zone species they won't be cheap in Sydney.
Some, such as blackwood, are quite valuable for furniture making, etc. Blackwood sawdust is an irritant. Who knows what would happen if it was used for pizza oven fuel.
So I skip the acacias.
 
If you run your fire in those trays you don't get ash on your bricks, but they do cut down the amount of radiant heat that impacts your floor.
I know this from experience, another friend had a similar arrangement. He couldn't get his floor hot until he took my advice and tried it without the tray.

Thanks for telling me eucalyptus is the most popular variety.
$16 for 10kg is the market price. They break the wood into those small pieces, it cost labour. It's ok for me as this is just my first time to try. I don't need this for starting as I will use bamboo or charcoal to start the fire. I read some of the posts. They said its around $220 per cube of dry wood. unless you spend some time to find a cheaper supplier.

My petrol chainsaw is broken, now I have an electric one. So I can't bring it to outdoor and cut the falling tree. Today I notice there are some falling trunk and branch in the reserve closed to my home. They are too big to put squeeze into my SUV.

To the next burn I definitely try to burn without the tray, and will try to locate the wood in different place to see whether it will improve the burning.

I don't have axe, cutting is a problem to me, I will use this tool and will buy a wood splitting drill bit.

Offline 02ebz06

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Re: Kamado -> DIY pizza oven -> buy a new Pizza oven today
« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2021, 10:54:57 AM »
Google Kindling Cracker.
It was designed by an Australian girl.
I have one, works great.
Here is a post with pictures  -->  https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=62069.msg622725#msg622725
Bruce here... My toys --> FGM 800-B Pizza Oven, Pellet Grill, Pellet Smoker, Propane Griddle, Propane Grill

Offline paddywide

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Re: Kamado -> DIY pizza oven -> buy a new Pizza oven today
« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2021, 01:15:25 AM »
Google Kindling Cracker.
It was designed by an Australian girl.
I have one, works great.
Here is a post with pictures  -->  https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=62069.msg622725#msg622725

The tool cost more than a hundred , maybe the drill bit is more suitable for me.

Today I made the 3rd burn. This time I start with the charcoal without the tray. 45 mins later it maintains at 250 Celsius.

Today I make Chinese bbq pork, pork belly put into boiling water for 20mins. Make net shape cut on the meat, more than half height deep, marinade with salt, soy sauce, oyster sauce, 5 spicy powder, pepper powder. Use knife to pinch lots of hold on the skin. Spread white vinegar on the skin. Put a thin layer salt on the skin. Use foil to wrap the meat only. Put in the 250 degree for 50 mins. 300 degree for 5mins to make the skin more crispy. It tastes good and it is better than the Chinese restaurant. Because the meat I wrapped and the juice is locked.

I pick 2 branches 2-4 cm thick from a park. I put the branches while the oven still in 250, it burns well, but even I put a lot of sticks in, the temp cant go oven 450 degree. Not sure what is wrong. Maybe wood fire cant go over this temp? Or I still need to put more stick in?
« Last Edit: February 28, 2021, 06:47:20 AM by paddywide »

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