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Author Topic: NJ Bar Pies by The Broz  (Read 236 times)

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Offline Peter B

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NJ Bar Pies by The Broz
« on: April 03, 2021, 09:51:01 AM »
So I have started trying to make bar pies with the goal of doing something in the realm of Star Tavern, Kinchley's and so on.  I will say first that I am playing at a disadvantage, as I have never had the real deal before.  Just judging from videos and pictures, I think I have a rough idea of what they are going for - essentially the flavors of a NY style with a thinner and crispier crust, and just a lighter/less filling version.

So far I have tried the recipe in the Elements of Pizza, and the Serious Eats recipe (https://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2011/04/crispy-bar-style-pizza-star-tavern-recipe.html with the baker's %s here https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=12769.msg665373#msg665373).
Below are some pics of what I did last night.

Here are some questions (in bold) and notes that I hope folks can help me with:
- I have been using a springform pan (I assume it is aluminum) that I spread some oil on before adding the dough.  I expect this is not ideal, but I wasn't ready to spring (I made a pun) for another pan just yet.  I wanted the round shape though. 
- The dough always seems to snap back.  I have seen suggestions from Nickyr of using a glass to press out the dough, and I tried pinching it into the corners, but it usually snaps back.  I think I saw that spreading some crisco on the edges will hold the dough in place?  Is this correct?
- I rolled out the last dough of the evening last night more aggressively and I think that helped with the texture and crisp.
- My stone is getting black from the oil.  Is this supposed to happen?  I put some oil in the pan and bake for 5 min in the pan before moving it straight to the stone.
-  Even if I roll out the dough to the edge, it still seems to want to create a very slightly puffed crust.  Funny enough - one of my attempts was on a screen, as I saw that Kinchley's does this.  I guess the only difference from my regular NY style is that I used a rolling pin.  The pie still came out like a NY pie (using the recipe from TEOP).  It seems like this style is supposed to have a uniformly thin crust - correct?  If so - any thoughts on what I might try to adjust?
- My cheese melt definitely does not look correct.  I wonder if I am not using enough, but I don't get the impression that the bar pies are supposed to be "cheese heavy".  Happy to be corrected here.
- I used some Don Pepino's last night with some water to thin it out.  I suspect that I need to be using something even thinner, and maybe this will help with the cheese appearance (based on the teachings of Hammetjr)?
- I remember seeing somewhere that Walter said that using your regular NY dough recipe will get you close, so I am thinking of trying that as well.  Plus there is a formulation I have seen here that calls for semolina as well, which I will try at some point as well.  I am less concerned with mimicking one of these places, and am ok with getting something that tastes good and is "inspired by" those sorts of places.
- The dough was way overproofed last night, but I saw a post from a while back that said that overproofed dough makes good bar pies, so I just went with it.  You will see in the pics that it bubbled even though I tried docking it with a fork.  Maybe I need one of those professional rolling dockers.

A lot to take in here, I know.  I appreciate any help folks can give.

The Broz
« Last Edit: April 03, 2021, 09:52:40 AM by Peter B »
I said to my little one, "come here so I can change you".
He said "change only comes from within".  :-/

Offline hammettjr

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Re: NJ Bar Pies by The Broz
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2021, 06:04:18 PM »
Regarding the melt question:

The picture came through very small, so its hard to see thr thickness of the sauce where it's showing towards the rim. But it does look thick from what I can tell.

Also, looks like you had a few big bubbles...that will hurt the melt as it slides the cheese into thicker pools.

Matt

Offline parallei

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Re: NJ Bar Pies by The Broz
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2021, 06:39:57 PM »

Here are some questions (in bold) and notes that I hope folks can help me with:
  I think I saw that spreading some crisco on the edges will hold the dough in place?  Is this correct?

Yes

- My stone is getting black from the oil.  Is this supposed to happen?

I just think it happens. It will not hurt anything.


  It seems like this style is supposed to have a uniformly thin crust - correct?  If so - any thoughts on what I might try to adjust?

If you are not, use a rolling pin.



Offline Peter B

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Re: NJ Bar Pies by The Broz
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2021, 08:02:22 PM »
Thanks to you both.

Yes - I suspect the sauce was still too thick. Are you almost going for "watery" in terms of viscosity?

Yep - I use a rolling pin, but I think I need to be more aggressive, and maybe the crisco will do the rest.

With regard to the stone going black, the one thing that pops to mind is that I wouldn't want to do this to the stone in an Ooni type oven.  I did notice that the time I baked with only cooking spray in the pan, that the underside had a different texture. 
I said to my little one, "come here so I can change you".
He said "change only comes from within".  :-/

Offline hammettjr

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Re: NJ Bar Pies by The Broz
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2021, 09:28:15 PM »

Yes - I suspect the sauce was still too thick. Are you almost going for "watery" in terms of viscosity?


Check this out:
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=51924.msg598020#msg598020


Matt

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Offline Peter B

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Re: NJ Bar Pies by The Broz
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2021, 07:43:10 AM »
Check this out:
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=51924.msg598020#msg598020
Ah yes, I see. When my current tomato supply depletes, I guess I will replenish with some cans of WP.  I know that when I was trying brands before, I wasnít happy with the flavor very often. I wish I could get Scalfani here.
I said to my little one, "come here so I can change you".
He said "change only comes from within".  :-/

Offline foreplease

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Re: NJ Bar Pies by The Broz
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2021, 11:51:29 PM »
Ah yes, I see. When my current tomato supply depletes, I guess I will replenish with some cans of WP.  I know that when I was trying brands before, I wasnít happy with the flavor very often. I wish I could get Scalfani here.
I have gotten them from Amazon a couple times. They are often out of stock but show they have them tonight. This is $2 more than I last paid. Spread over 12 cans itís not much. They are very good!
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00F9TCIQG/?tag=pmak-20
-Tony

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