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Author Topic: Simple NY Pizza Sauce  (Read 796 times)

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Offline pvura

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Simple NY Pizza Sauce
« on: May 08, 2021, 06:26:02 PM »
Hi all! I hope you all are staying safe and healthy!

So, I was debating making this thread as I felt it wouldn't be a beneficial discussion for everyone and only to me. But after an another attempt a few days ago, I decided to start this thread out of frustration.

I am quite disappointed with my NY sauce, as of now. I am looking for a completely smooth sauce (on the thinner/looser end) that is on the sweet side with a mellow, but not overpowering herbal backbone. A little bit of zing but not much. Sweetness to balance the salty dough and thinness to promote a better cheese melt. Not looking for the typical overly rich, robust, thick sauce that most people envision on a NY slice.

I don't have access to any of these commonly used brands in the industry such as 7/11, Stanislaus, Alta Cucina, Full Red, etc. I am trying to accomplish this sauce with easily accessible brands. For a few months now, my go-to has been the ITALBRAND SAN MARZANOS. They come packed with basil, aren't so watery, and come at a great price.

I have made several attempts at this, using both raw and cooked sauces, different sweeteners, pastes, purees, different ratios of herbs, etc. while still keeping it relatively simple.

Two days ago was my last attempt and the recipe went as followed:
1; 28 ounce can ITALBRAND SAN MARZANOS (blended and strained with a sieve)
3/4 tsp salt
1/2 tsp dried oregano
2 tsp sugar
1/4 tsp black pepper

cooked over low heat for 25 mins.

The sauce turned out extremely acidic and sweet but not in the right way. Very reminiscent of the store bought canned marinara pasta sauces. Completely disappointed

Does anybody know of a way to add proper sweetness to the sauce? I've heard everything from onions to coca-cola but I haven't had any luck so far. Am I just using the wrong tomatoes? If a sauce expert could chime in and share their recipe that matches my desires / requirements, I would greatly appreciate it!

Thank you so much!
« Last Edit: May 08, 2021, 08:40:03 PM by pvura »

Offline hammettjr

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Re: Simple NY Pizza Sauce
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2021, 07:50:34 PM »
...
Does anybody know of a way to add proper sweetness to the sauce? I've heard everything from onions to coca-cola but I haven't had any luck so far...


Great question. I've been tinkering with my sauce for a few years with my experiments posted across this board. My answer is no, I don't know  ??? I can make an ok sauce, but a great/memorable one continues to allude me. Looking forward to trying again tomorrow night though  :chef:

Matt

Offline pvura

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Re: Simple NY Pizza Sauce
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2021, 08:21:59 PM »
Great question. I've been tinkering with my sauce for a few years with my experiments posted across this board. My answer is no, I don't know  ??? I can make an ok sauce, but a great/memorable one continues to allude me. Looking forward to trying again tomorrow night though  :chef:

Thanks for the reply Matt! Ive been following your posts for a few months now and they always motivate me to go back to the drawing board and revise my recipes / formulas

I would love for you to report back after your trial tomorrow.  :)

Offline bobgraff

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Re: Simple NY Pizza Sauce
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2021, 09:54:09 PM »
I went down this same path, hunting for a decent sweet sauce. My main takeaway was that there wasn't anything I could add to the tomato sauce to make it "right".  Gotta start with a good tomato (in my case 7/11 + Full Red).

Another suggestion: transfer canned tomatoes into glass bowl for a day or two to dissipate any residual flavors from the can.

Bob

"I learn each day what I need to know to do tomorrow’s work." - Arnold Toynbee

Offline jever4321

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Re: Simple NY Pizza Sauce
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2021, 10:03:55 PM »
Remove the oregano from the recipe. Replace it with fresh or puréed basil.  I just sauté a clove or two of garlic being careful to not burn it or the sauce will turn bitter. Then add tomato purée, salt, sugar and basil. I never measure sorry. The sugar cuts the acidity of the tomato so I normally add quite a bit. I’d say equal or slightly more than salt.  Add the oregano to each slice right before you eat it.

I hope that helps 😬
-Jay

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Offline jkb

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Re: Simple NY Pizza Sauce
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2021, 11:28:26 PM »
I use black pepper for sweetness and bite.  Quite a bit of it.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2021, 06:54:23 AM by jkb »
John

Offline jever4321

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Re: Simple NY Pizza Sauce
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2021, 08:59:47 AM »
I use black pepper for sweetness and bite.  Quite a bit of it.
black pepper for sweetness??? 😬👎🏻😂
-Jay

Offline jkb

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Re: Simple NY Pizza Sauce
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2021, 10:32:05 AM »
black pepper for sweetness??? 😬👎🏻😂

Have you never had black pepper?
John

Offline jever4321

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Re: Simple NY Pizza Sauce
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2021, 10:45:47 AM »
Have you never had black pepper?
lol yes. I put black pepper on my steak. I wouldn’t add it to add sweetness
-Jay

Offline pvura

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Re: Simple NY Pizza Sauce
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2021, 11:40:54 AM »
I went down this same path, hunting for a decent sweet sauce. My main takeaway was that there wasn't anything I could add to the tomato sauce to make it "right".  Gotta start with a good tomato (in my case 7/11 + Full Red).

Another suggestion: transfer canned tomatoes into glass bowl for a day or two to dissipate any residual flavors from the can.

Well my local smart and final does sell huge cans of 7/11 so i might try that in the near future and mix it with some type of heavy paste for sweetness.

Ive also never heard the bowl tip. Thanks for sharing! Ill definitely try that :)

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Offline pvura

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Re: Simple NY Pizza Sauce
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2021, 11:41:51 AM »
I use black pepper for sweetness and bite.  Quite a bit of it.

Black pepper? Ive never thought to add black pepper for sweetness?
Maybe u mean black garlic....?

Offline foreplease

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Re: Simple NY Pizza Sauce
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2021, 11:45:04 AM »
pvura: for nearly 20 yeaars my Dad bought train cars full of 55 gallon drums of tomato puree. Every one of them came from San Jose. I have to think there are great tomatoes not far from your home. My suggestion is find one you like as-is and that is always easily available, then tinker with it until you love it. Less is more. I would statt by running it through a food mill since you prefer it thin. Start with small amounts of salt and sugar. Taste and adjust. For many but not all pizzas, I normally do that, add black pepper and a little olive oil. It’s all personal preference.
-Tony

Offline piesofsatan

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Re: Simple NY Pizza Sauce
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2021, 11:55:10 AM »
I’ve definitely learned that less is more when it comes to using a real good tomato. I spent over a year agonizing over spices and seasonings and it was never right for me. I’ve since learned to let the tomato speak for itself. I’ll add very small amounts of  salt, pepper, and olive oil to the actual tomatoes, and then when I sauce a skin I’ll hit it with grated Romano and some Sicilian oregano before putting the cheese down. Personally doing so much less has gotten me closer to the flavor I’m looking for.

Paulie Gee’s Slice Shop uses Tomato Magic right out of the can, just blended down - but no seasoning

Bellucci Pizza uses 6-in-1 straight out of the can.

Just find the tomato you like most straight up and go from there!

Offline Pizza Shark

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Re: Simple NY Pizza Sauce
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2021, 07:00:31 PM »
In my opinion, "Sweetness" in sauce is a difficult thing to describe.  You can make a sweet sauce by adding sugar to try and offset a high acid content inferior sauce.  You can go with a with a higher quality crushed tomato.  My go-to is 7/11 when I run out of home made sauce from tomatoes from my garden and if I run out of 7/11 I like Muir Glen Organic crushed tomatoes with basil that can be found in some stores.  And you can add herbs/spices that make a sauce taste sweeter without adding sugar (think fresh Basil leaves and maybe some Fennel Seed you've ground up with a mortar and pestil).  You can add a lot of fresh basil leaves to a sauce.  I always add some fresh ground fennel seed to my sauce...  That is that secret black licorice flavor that you'll taste in lots of greek pizza where they add way too much in my opinion.  I only add a little so it is there and enhancing flavor without that noticable licorice flavor.  If I'm making sauce from a #10 can of 7/11 I'll probably add 3/4 tsp of fresh ground fennel seed.  Also, I NEVER EVER heat, cook, simmer, boil or whatever a canned tomato product before using it for pizza... Just mix in all the spices you want with a little EVOO and refrigerate it for about 2 days before using or putting in the freezer for future use.  You need to incorporate some oil in the sauce because oil and water don't mix.  Someone once told me when you add dry oregano to a sauce you are looking for it to release the flavorful oil it contains but it won't if there isn't an oil added to and mixed into the sauce to serve as a carrier.  An alternative is shake dry oregano on top of the sauce before topping with cheese and let the oil from the cheese breaking serve as a carrier but I prefer it in my sauce with some EVOO added.       
« Last Edit: May 12, 2021, 07:37:10 PM by Pizza Shark »

Offline Pizza Shark

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Re: Simple NY Pizza Sauce
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2021, 07:17:54 PM »
So... If I only have access to a 28oz can of Muir Glen organic crushed with basil from the store this what I do:

28oz can of Muir Glen
1/2 tsp Sugar
1/2 tsp Salt
1/2 tsp crushed red pepper flakes
2 tsp dry oregano (I like oregano)
1/4 tsp ground fennel seed with a mortar and pestil 
1/4 tsp dry garlic flakes (not garlic powder, granulated garlic or garlic salt)
2 TBS EVOO
Fresh chopped basil leaves as you see fit (maybe 10 basil leaves for me chopped up and stirred in).

Whisk it all up and put it in the fridge for 2 days before using or freezing for future use.  I think you'll like it if ya try it (But I could be wrong).




 
« Last Edit: May 12, 2021, 07:22:42 PM by Pizza Shark »

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Offline pvura

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Re: Simple NY Pizza Sauce
« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2021, 07:48:15 PM »
So... If I only have access to a 28oz can of Muir Glen organic crushed with basil from the store this what I do:

28oz can of Muir Glen
1/2 tsp Sugar
1/2 tsp Salt
1/2 tsp crushed red pepper flakes
2 tsp dry oregano (I like oregano)
1/4 tsp ground fennel seed with a mortar and pestil 
1/4 tsp dry garlic flakes (not garlic powder, granulated garlic or garlic salt)
2 TBS EVOO
Fresh chopped basil leaves as you see fit (maybe 10 basil leaves for me chopped up and stirred in).

Whisk it all up and put it in the fridge for 2 days before using or freezing for future use.  I think you'll like it if ya try it (But I could be wrong).

Thank you so much for this! Very helpful! I will definitely give this a shot and report back.

After reading this and some similar posts on the board, i don’t think cooked sauces are for me! I might take a break from them and just experiment with raw sauces for now before i try again.

Offline Pizza Shark

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Re: Simple NY Pizza Sauce
« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2021, 08:22:52 PM »
Thank you so much for this! Very helpful! I will definitely give this a shot and report back.

After reading this and some similar posts on the board, i don’t think cooked sauces are for me! I might take a break from them and just experiment with raw sauces for now before i try again.

Yeah, the tomatoes in a can have already been processed once and they don't go to the boiling point during processing at the packing plant.  They are taken to 160 degrees for 15 seconds which is way lower than our 212 degree boiling point on our stoves.  Taking a can of processed tomatoes to the boiling point before use on our stoves is killing lots of flavor. 

The best sauce I use is from my home grown tomatoes that I'll blend up with a stick blender on the stove with all of my herbs/spices already added.  I'll bring it to the boiling point and then I start adding tomato paste to get to a pizza sauce consistency and shut off the heat.  If I reduced the fresh tomato mix by boiling and boiling for hours I'd lose the fresh taste.  The tomato paste is the thickener instead of boiling the heck out of the fresh tomatoes until they get to a sauce consistency.  Adding tomato paste to fresh blended tomatoes isn't cheating to make a sauce... It's preserving that fresh tomato taste from the fresh tomatoes and thickening it without boiling all the fresh flavor out of it. 

Spring is here... If you are able, plant some Better Boy tomato plants where you are and reap the rewards of fresh tomato sauce this summer that blows 7/11 and every other canned product away.
       
« Last Edit: May 12, 2021, 08:43:27 PM by Pizza Shark »

Offline Qapla

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Re: Simple NY Pizza Sauce
« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2021, 09:09:56 AM »
I have been using the Cento brand of San Marzano tomatoes from Walmart

Although these cost more than the other brands that Walmart sells we have found we like them much better

To enhance them, if we want to, we slice Roma tomatoes and roast them in the oven with a pinch of salt. We remove the skins and add them to the San Marzano and then blend them with a stick blender if we want the sauce to be smooth. We may also add some sugar, black pepper and another pinch of salt.

Any other seasoning/herbs/spices will be sprinkled on the sauce once it has been spread on the skin before we add the cheese
« Last Edit: May 29, 2021, 09:14:56 AM by Qapla »

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