Balling - Extensibility and trapped air

[pizzashark]

Hi all,

Does the yeast in the dough need to build air again after balling or will the already built air remain in the ball? As i understand after balling (after a bulk ferment, so air has already been produced) we need to wait to the point that the dough is sufficiently relaxed, but does the dough also lose air when balling and it needs to be developed again? Is careful handling when shaping the balls important not to lose any trapped air?

I already did 24h RT fermentation with balling 12 hours vs 6 hours prior to baking but did not notice any difference in oven spring. The 6 hours balling prior dough had more strength (however still too extensible), the 12 hours one was too wayyy to relaxed/too extensible (hydration about 66% with 00 zero flour). Do you think i could go even lower than 6 hours given that the dough would have sufficiently relaxed, or do you think i would miss out on oven spring because air was lost when balling?

BTW i always made sure the dough before bulking had enough strength (stretch & fold etc.), so building the initial strength os not the problem.

Thanks for your answers!
-Shark

[texmex]

In my experience it depends on the fermentation stage of the dough as well as how much yeast was used. A very old dough (weeks old) out of the fridge can be reballed and still find some yeast activity, and pockets of air are created by the gentle folds of a full stretch reball.
If I have a fresher robust dough that needs a reball, I ball it up very taut, and the rise will occur again during RT rest almost every time. Occasionally I will end up with a bit more dense crumb, and chewier structure. The reball is key to my routine on almost all my processes, but others frown upon reballing. Slack dough is just too difficult to stretch and launch properly, although some of my favorite bakes were on uneven thick and thin spot crusts. 
You really have to find what works best with your formula.  I tend not to develop my dough too much initially, and reballing puts it right at the sweet spot when it is time to prepare for the actual baking.

[foreplease]

I agree with texmex and would add: if your dough is too extensible, you may want to reduce yeast, or time at room temp, or the temperature of the room itself.

[pizzashark]

Thanks for your answers.
I put very little yeast but it seems that the hydration of the dough is on the high side of what my flour can handle, and that's why it gets too extensible in my opinion. I will try balling 4 hours before bake next time.
Any other suggestions are welcome!

[pizzashark]

Just a follow up:
On another attempt I created the balls 6 hours prior to the bake and balled them VERY tightly. Finally they were less extensible to the point where they were too elastic. The texture felt chewy in the mouth.

On my last attempt i did a no knead dough, with a few strech and folds, ball 12 hours prior bake. Result was great.

Both attempts (as all prior attempts as well) were with 24h RT fermentation and 65% hydration Caputo 00 Chef.

Final observations with 24 RT fermentation, 65% hydration and Caputo 00 Chef:
- too much intensive (hand) kneading seems to make the dough too extensible when balling at normal tightness is done 12 hour prior bake( Is this even possible?)
- Very tight balling 6 hours before bake makes the dough too elastic and chewy (i think this one sounds logic)
- minimal knead with s+f and balling (standard tightness) 12 hours before bake works very well in all aspects

Would like to hear your opinions.