Author Topic: Collection of Non-Lehmann New York Style Dough Formulations  (Read 60770 times)

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Offline Pete-zza

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Collection of Non-Lehmann New York Style Dough Formulations
« on: September 15, 2010, 02:24:23 PM »
As I noted recently in Reply 5 in the thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11816.msg109706.html#msg109706, I have been meaning for some time to create a compilation of non-Lehmann New York style dough formulations. My hope and expectation in coming up with such a compilation would be that members would try them out and report back on their results. I thought it would also be interesting to have the members compare their results with results they achieved using one or more of the many versions of the basic Lehmann NY style dough formulation. The results might be presented in new threads.

To create the collection of non-Lehmann NY style dough formulations, I went through the NY Style board and looked for as many non-Lehmann NY style dough formulations as I could find. I eliminated from consideration all formulations that were identified as Lehmann dough formulations and those that fit the baker’s percents of the basic Lehmann dough formulation. In some cases, there were enough departures from the Lehmann formulation that I added the recipes to the collection.

In the next few posts, I have set forth the final collection. I divided the collection into three categories: non-Lehmann NY style dough formulations created by our members; non-Lehmann NY style dough formulations originating from outside the forum (even though practiced by the members); and non-Lehmann NY style clones created by our members of doughs used by some well-known NYC pizzerias. It’s possible that I might have missed a dough formulation here or there that deserves to be in the collection, but I am willing to add it should a credible case be made for its inclusion. There are a few entries on the list that some might contend are not really NY styles but if a member so identified it, I included it in the list. In many cases, I added comments and also referenced related threads and posts in order to have a more complete treatment of a given recipe. I did not list the entries in any particular order. I am sure that from time to time I will tweak the entries or update them with new entries.

I have not personally tried all of the recipes so members may have to drill down into the threads and posts to find specific ingredients listings. To the extent that recipes need to be modified, the dough calculating tools identified at http://www.pizzamaking.com/dough_tools.html can be used, as appropriate.

To make it easy for members to find and use the collection, I will “sticky” this thread.


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Collection of Non-Lehmann New York Style Dough Formulations
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2010, 02:27:00 PM »
Non-Lehmann NY Style Dough Formulations Created by the Forum’s Members

Glutenboy’s Version: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7761.0.html
Comments: This is one of the most popular NY style dough formulations on the forum. The dough comes very close to a classic NY “elite” style inasmuch as it is made up of only flour, water, yeast (IDY) and salt (sea salt), and no sugar and no oil. The dough can also tolerate very long periods of cold fermentation. For best results, the oven used to bake the pizza should be capable of an operating temperature of around 600 degrees F. The finished crust will be quite thin (a thickness factor of around 0.07).
Related Threads: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6370.msg54582.html#msg54582; http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,4565.msg38409.html#msg38409;
YouTube Video: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=40571.msg404670#msg404670

JerryMac’s Version: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5851.msg49940.html#msg49940
Comments: JerryMac’s dough recipe is another very popular recipe among the members of the forum. The dough is based on using volume measurements rather than weights and it utilizes a preferment that is similar to a commercially leavened poolish. The dough also includes honey or barley malt syrup at levels (around 5%) that are considerably higher than the sugar levels normally found in the NY style. The dough can be made and used the same day.
Related Threads: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6511.msg55809.html#msg55809; http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5689.msg48245.html#msg48245; http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3120.msg26459.html#msg26459;
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3084.msg26177.html#msg26177; for a modified version of the JerryMac recipe, by Johnny the Gent, see Replies 30-32 and 35 starting at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,27294.msg284093.html#msg284093

Pete-zza’s Baker’s Percent Version of JerryMac’s NY Style Dough Recipe: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6515.msg55855.html#msg55855
Comments: The above thread provides a baker’s percent version of JerryMac’s recipe but also discusses alternative preferment versions of the recipe, including classic poolish and sponge preferment versions.

Essen1’s (Mike’s) Versions: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8093.msg69553.html#msg69553
Comments: There are Lehmann NY style influences in the versions discussed in the above thread but there are also extensions and enhancements of the Lehmann NY style. This is another popular thread because of the many forms and variations of the NY style that are covered in the thread.

scott123's 123 New York Style:
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=27591.0 and a revised version at Reply 10 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=33478.msg332404#msg332404; for a version by member Mary Ann Brulato, see Reply 237 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=35033.msg375169#msg375169.

Nick's NY Style With Poolish: Reply 9371 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=26286.msg484835#msg484835 and Reply 9374 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=26286.msg484857#msg484857.

John Fazzari's Modified Reinhart NY Style
Comments: John's recipes use honey in lieu of sugar, and preferments also, and a slightly larger thickness factor than a classic NY style, but the finished pizzas have many of the characteristics of a NY style pizza. The total dough formulation bears many similarities to the Lehmann NY style dough formulation.

Craig's Johnny's Clone; https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=33831.msg336336#msg336336; see, also, Reply 51 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=33831.msg340119#msg340119, Reply 63 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=33831.msg349396#msg349396, and Reply 84 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=33831.msg355918#msg355918.

Canadave’s (Dave's) Version: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2175.msg19124.html#msg19124
Comments: Canadave’s dough recipe uses volume measurements and makes a NY style dough that uses more oil (about 5%) than most NY styles, more yeast (almost 0.80%) than most cold fermented NY style doughs, and yields a finished crust that is thicker (a thickness factor of around 0.137) than most NY style pizzas, but it is a popular recipe among the forum’s members. The above thread also includes a baker’s percent version of Canadave’s recipe (at Reply 8 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2175.msg19140.html#msg19140) and also thinner versions (e.g., see Reply 39 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2175.msg20385.html#msg20385) more in line with most NY style crusts.
Related Threads: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,4470.msg37300.html#msg37300; http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6140.msg52701.html#msg52701 (DLX mixer version); http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9120.msg78925.html#msg78925

pftaylor’s “Pizza Raquel” Dough Formulation: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1258.msg11274.html#msg11274
Comments: The Pizza Raquel dough formulation embodies characteristics and influences of both the classic NY style and the Neapolitan style. However, for classification purposes, it is placed in the NY style. The Pizza Raquel dough typically uses a natural starter/preferment and the dough is baked in a very high-temperature oven. The Pizza Raquel is featured as a signature pizza in pftaylor’s pizzeria and wine bar at http://wood-firedpizza.com/pizza.aspx. Until the pizzeria and wine bar took pftaylor away from active participation on the forum, the Raquel thread was a much viewed thread.

Terry Deane’s Version: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7561.msg64913.html#msg64913
Comments: Terry Deane (tdeane) is an artisan pizza operator in Canada who was inspired by the work of Domenic DeMarco of DiFara’s in Brooklyn. His dough uses only flour (including blends), water (at fairly high hydration), salt and a natural starter/preferment (which is sometimes supplemented by IDY)
Related Thread: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7178.msg61910.html#msg61910 (Update: Terry Deane passed away around July of 2016)

The Forum’s NY Style Dough Recipe: http://www.pizzamaking.com/newyorkstyle.php

Pizza Shark’s Version: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3736.msg31160.html#msg31160
Comments: Pizza Shark is a former pizza maker who worked for the famous Pizzeria Regina in Boston. The dough recipe makes a dough that can be used after a few hours of room temperature fermentation (or using a warm oven)
Related Threads: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3712.msg30850.html#msg30850; http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3716.msg31010.html#msg31010

Steve’s quick & easy Version: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2790.msg24104.html#msg24104
Comments: Steve’s NY style dough formulation is an “emergency” type dough formulation that calls for high-gluten flour with a high hydration (around 69%). The dough is prepared in a food processor.
Related Thread: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3257.msg27587.html#msg27587

Matthew”s NY Street Style Using a Natural Preferment: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9543.msg82687.html#msg82687

abilak’s NY Style: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7689.msg66007.html#msg66007; http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9705.msg84249.html#msg84249; http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9429.msg81654.html#msg81654; http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9705.msg84249.html#msg84249; http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,29688.msg297272.html#msg297272

Jackie Tran’s (Chau's) NY Style Dough Recipe Using Volume Measurements: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,10789.msg96280.html#msg96280
Comments: The above thread explains how to make different NY style doughs using volume measurements rather than weights.

WestCountry’s (Chris's) NY Style Using a Natural (Ischia) Preferment: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8304.msg71618.html#msg71618

ThePizzaBiatch’s NY Style Dough Recipe Using Ovaltine: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8796.msg76221.html#msg76221
Related Post/Thread: Reply 121 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7225.msg79287/topicseen.html#msg79287 and http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9786.msg84920.html#msg84920

Trogdor33’s (Joe's) NY Style with Lactic Acid: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9537.msg82633.html#msg82633

Pizza_Not_War’s Varasano NY Style: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6375.msg54619.html#msg54619

ma71supra’s NY Style with Camaldoli Preferment: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5791.msg49265.html#msg49265

Robin’s NY Style Pizza in the UK: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5826.msg49588.html#msg49588

addicted’s NY Style Dough Recipe: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,685.msg6164.html#msg6164;
Related Thread: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,982.msg8752.html#msg8752

Pierre’s NY Style Dough Recipe using Sesame Seed Oil: Reply 19 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,389.msg3481.html#msg3481 together with Reply 25 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,389.msg3489.html#msg3489;
Related Post: Reply 156 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,389.msg22631.html#msg22631

Perk’s NY Style: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2521.msg21809.html#msg21809

Rocky’s Western New York Style: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2751.msg23705.html#msg23705 and http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2631.msg22750.html#msg22750
Comments: The above threads describe NY style pizzas that are popular in the Western part of NY State


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Collection of Non-Lehmann New York Style Dough Formulations
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2010, 02:28:34 PM »
Non-Lehmann NY Style Dough Formulations from Outside the Forum

NAPICS 2007/2009 NY Style Dough Formulation: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9698.msg84195.html#msg84195 and http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,4800.msg40779.html#msg40779
Comments: The NAPICS NY style dough formulation is representative of a NY style dough that uses oil at the upper end of the range (3%) typical of that style. The formulation has been used for several years to instruct attendees at  NAPICS (North American Pizza & Ice Cream Show).

NAPICS 2008 NY Style Dough Formulation: Reply 3 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6184.msg53808.html#msg53808
Comment: The above dough formulation calls for using organic high gluten flour but is otherwise similar to dough formulations used at other NAPICS shows.

AIB Training Seminar NY Style Dough Formulation: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5621.msg47717.html#msg47717
Comments: The above dough formulation is quite close to the basic Lehmann NY style dough formulation. I have included it since it is representative of the type of dough used in the AIB training seminars.

Peter Reinhart’s NY Style: Reply 112 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,524.msg17203.html#msg17203, http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8100.msg69631.html#msg69631 and http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13442.msg133211.html#msg133211.
Comments: The Reinhart NY style is intended to be characteristic of the NY “street” or “slice” style. However, because of the dough’s high sugar content (almost 3%) and its high oil content (almost 7%), most people familiar with that style are unlikely to consider the Reinhart recipe as a true representative of that style.
Related Threads: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1924.msg17015.html#msg17015; http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,438.msg3802.html#msg3802; http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12238.msg115673.html#msg115673
(Note: A close version of the Reinhart NY style dough recipe also appears at http://www.fornobravo.com/pizzaquest/instructionals/59-written-recipes/169-ny-style-pizza-dough.html)

Peter Reinhart’s Neo-Neapolitan Style I: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8143.msg70018.html#msg70018
Comments: The Reinhart Neo-Neapolitan style is intended to be characteristic of the New Haven style and the “elite” NY style as represented at the well known NYC pizzerias Lombardi’s, Totonno’s, John’s, Grimaldi’s and Tacconelli’s.
Related Threads: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8978.msg77683.html#msg77683 and http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2170.msg19054.html#msg19054

Peter Reinhart's Neo-Neapolitan Style II: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11917.msg111073.html#msg111073
Comments: This version comes from Peter Reinhart's book Artisan Breads Everyday.
Related Post: Reply 28 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11917.msg122631.html#msg122631.

Peter Reinhart's Neo-Neapolitan Style III: http://www.fornobravo.com/pizzaquest/instructionals/59-written-recipes/92-classic-pizza-dough-neo-neapolitan-style.html.
Related Threads: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12866.msg124706.html#msg124706 and http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13037.msg127398.html#msg127398.

Jeff Varasano’s NY Pizza Recipe: http://www.varasanos.com/PizzaRecipe.htm
Comment: This is a popular recipe among the forum’s members but is primarily adapted for very high temperature ovens, such as a modified home oven.

« Last Edit: March 31, 2011, 06:33:29 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Collection of Non-Lehmann New York Style Dough Formulations
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2010, 02:29:57 PM »

Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: Collection of Non-Lehmann New York Style Dough Formulations
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2010, 02:53:18 PM »

Glutenboy’s Version: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7761.0.html
Comments: This is one of the most popular NY style dough formulations on the forum. The dough comes very close to a classic NY “elite” style inasmuch as it is made up of only flour, water, yeast (IDY) and salt (sea salt), and no sugar and no oil. The dough can also tolerate very long periods of cold fermentation. For best results, the oven used to bake the pizza should be capable of an operating temperature of around 600 degrees F. The finished crust will be quite thin (a thickness factor of around 0.07).

Glad to see this one first, it deserves to be. My favorite by far, and oddly just made a 3 ball batch today. I'd love to try it at 600 degrees and I'd like to add for the 550 guys like me I find the stone best placed on bottom rack. Some formulas, Lehmann, I find one up is best as it's thicker and top needs the extra heat. Anyone who won't get into starters as it's pointless since you're cooking at 550, this is a great formula to create the sourdough "elite" thing, as Peter said so well.

Try this, you'll be glad ya did!

ps, great thread Peter.
"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1