Author Topic: Getting Closer to Patsy's Pizza (Read 20088 times)

Pete-zza · « **Reply #20 on:** January 22, 2005, 04:34:31 PM »

I have tried the Giusto's high-gluten flour but do not think it is as good as the KA Sir Lancelot flour. As for tomatoes and cheese, if you go to the Ingredients & Resources board you will find all kinds of threads devoted to those ingredients.

Peter

Steve · « **Reply #21 on:** January 22, 2005, 04:51:39 PM »

Quote from: varasano on January 22, 2005, 04:19:33 PM

Thanks for the flour link. I'll try it. Do you have a link for best tomatoes and cheese. I use Cento tomatoes. They are good but not great. My cheese in Atlanta stinks.

Well, supposedly the "best" tomatoes are produced by Escalon and Stanislaus. I've tried various type of canned tomatoes from both of these companies and they are truly excellent. Rumor has it that most NYC pizzerias use either Escalon's "Bonta" tomatoes or Stanislaus "Full Red" tomatoes. There's much more about this topic in the Ingredients & Resources board here.
http://www.escalon.net
http://www.stanislaus.com

As for cheese, the "best" cheese (and that used by most NYC pizzerias) is purportedly Gräńde whole milk mozzarella cheese. This cheese is ultra premium and has a lot of milk fat. This is the cheese that leaves that runny trail of oil down your arm when you're eating a slice of NYC pizza!
http://www.grande.com

Unfortunatley, all of these ultra-premium tomatoes and cheese are very hard to get at the consumer level. But, there's a lot more in the Ingredients and Resources board including sources for these products.

Randy · « **Reply #22 on:** January 22, 2005, 05:47:55 PM »

Jeff In georgia use Poly-O cheese at most grocery stores it comes in a 1# pack. Most of us use the part skim kind.

Randy

varasano · « **Reply #23 on:** January 22, 2005, 11:53:38 PM »

I'm thinking Patsy's does not use Polly-O...

Randy · « **Reply #24 on:** January 23, 2005, 08:31:29 AM »

No but it is a good cheese and easy to get until you find the right stuff. You must a transplant to Atlanta.

Arthur · « **Reply #25 on:** January 24, 2005, 09:47:17 AM »

Thanks for the pizza pictures - now that's the pizza I'm looking for!

For sauce try mixing San Marzano tomatoes with a little Bonta to thicken the sauce (I buy a big can on bonta and freeze small portions in zip lock bags) - don't cook it.

For the cheese, Corona Heights Pork Store in Queens NY is where you will find the mozz that many of the best pizza places in NY use....otherwise try Costco - they have a wrapped ball fresh mozz (not in water) that I like.

BTW, I agree with you on Lombardi's - you should try Nick's in Queens - another amazing pie using a gas oven (my #1).

varasano · « **Reply #26 on:** January 24, 2005, 01:14:13 PM »

Does Corona Ht. Pork Store Ship? I can't find a website for them.

Has anyone tried http://www.mozzny.com/

Arthur · « **Reply #27 on:** January 24, 2005, 02:07:45 PM »

The corona store probably doesn't have a web site...call them if you want to try the best mozz

http://www.manhattanusersguide.com/archives_content.php?contentID=052504&category=food

Arthur · « **Reply #28 on:** January 26, 2005, 02:38:55 PM »

Jeff, I re-read you webpage. Seems like you added some great information. Thank you. A couple of questions for you:

1) how did you come to use kosher/sea salt? did you try regular salt?

2) what kind of oil to you use to coat the dough - olive (I assume NOT extra virgin)

Other comments
- I agree with you about the water totally. I love NY water, but there's no magic there.
- I am very interested in what you think of the KASL flour. I have used KA bread flour and wasn't as impressed with it for pizza

varasano · « **Reply #29 on:** January 26, 2005, 04:55:57 PM »

KASL is on order. I've never tried it so I'll wait to comment.

I don't even own table salt and I haven't for years. I watched the cooking channel and 100% use kosher or sea salt so that was enough for me.

Steve · « **Reply #30 on:** February 21, 2005, 07:41:09 AM »

Quote from: varasano on January 22, 2005, 12:41:12 PM

I made 14 pies last night for a big party. These were the best yet. I really think I'm pretty much all the way home on the dough. My sauce needs work and Cheese in Atlanta is sub par. But these were minor because the crust was so amazing. Lately I've been bringing the temp down from 825 to about 775. Part of this was due to the oven cooling from making so many pies. But this dough does seem to come out a little better slightly cooler. I may push it back up to 800, I may have gone too low.

Steve, you mentioned linking to my web page on your home page. I'm a little worried about mentioning breaking my oven because of the liability. But maybe we can do something different. I'll think about it.

Jeff

Last night was a disaster. I used the self-clean cycle on my oven and popped the pizza in the oven with the stone at ~825 degrees F. Exactly two minutes later and the bottom of the pizza was burned to a cinder.

I need to work on that magic number regarding the temperature dough burns versus "chars". The second pie was slightly better because the first pie cooled the stone, but the residue from the first crust tainted the first. Live and learn. $:-\$

varasano · « **Reply #31 on:** February 21, 2005, 09:19:30 AM »

It takes experience. I started at about 700 and worked up gradually into the 800's. If the let the stone get too hot, pop an metal pan on top for just 30 seconds to absorb the heat. Don't use anything with teflon (it releases toxic chemicals over 600F)

Jeff

quido\'s pizza · « **Reply #32 on:** April 01, 2005, 05:15:27 PM »

although i'm a retired pizziola. i did make good friends, with jose' and victor at patsy's. there is nothing special about the dough. simple flour(all trumps) if memory serves me right, yeast, salt. all mixed in a old army mixer. i don't think they are using any starters(cultures) i forget the name of the mozza they use. it's an off brand. since the business was sold a few years ago. and jose' the pizziola left for a while. i got a few bad pie's.(under cooked,dough not raised) now jose' is back. and i had the perfect burnt pie last month. i truely think it's the oven. that produces the flavor. and understanding how to manage the coal (temp ) etc. john

pftaylor · « **Reply #33 on:** April 01, 2005, 06:05:39 PM »

quido\'s pizza,
Welcome to our special community. I wonder if you know if Jose has any ownership percentage in Patsy's? Or if you could share any of the history of Patsy's.

Also, if you can shed any further light on brand of ingredients that would be most helpful. I love the brightness of the sauce. It is the last thing I need to accurately produce a true home version.

quido's pizza · « **Reply #34 on:** April 01, 2005, 06:08:25 PM »

i should have said high gluentin flour. if i remember correct there are only a hand full of flour mills. that produce pizza flour.(all trumps or pillsbury pizza flour are top shelf) but many different brand names. one of the reasons new york has some of the best pizza(dough) is the city water. same for bread. some of the best itialian bread comes from the bx. it's all in the water. i'm sure patsy's is not using full red tomatoes or grande cheese. he's using a plain ground plum tomatoe. with only salt added. no paste or thickenier(pizza sauce) the real trick is using the right amount of yeast. and timing(proofing) the dough, based on if your going to use it in 4 hours or 24 hours what places like patsy's patsy's grimaldi, and neptune (coney island) have is that coal oven. you can taste the coal in the pie. john

pftaylor · « **Reply #35 on:** April 01, 2005, 06:17:07 PM »

quido's pizza,
Thanks so much for the insightful and rapid response.

I might suggest for you to take a peek at the Reverse Engineering of Patsy's Pizza thread. It has alot of information which you might want to comment on.

Thanks again. It is most appreciated.

quido's pizza · « **Reply #36 on:** April 01, 2005, 06:57:16 PM »

pftaylor; thanks for the welcome. i found this board by accident. looking for the address for lombardi's. i forgot what street it was on. i never ate there. allways to crowded i'll look at the reverse thread. i'm not sure how your trying to reproduce this at home (oven,what yuour doing for dough, mozz etc.) jose don't own a piece of the shop. it was sold about 5 years ago they build a kitchen bar and fixed up the place. i used to hang out there about 10 years ago i know they had a kitchen about 40 years ago. then closed it. i think they were also selling raw clams. i'll go down and talk to jose maybe this week. i'm sure thier dough is only pizza flour, brewers yeast,salt and water. 20 or 22 oz. for each pie. i'm sure he's using a ground plum tomatoe. ie. la saqusita. cento, pastosa. and only adding salt . tell me what your cooking in. etc. i will get you more exact info soon. remember in the pizza business suppliers and brands change from time to time. i'm sure it i had a shop with a coal oven it would be easy to reproduce. i'll give you some ideas later for making fine pizza in a cookie tray or sicilian tray... john

pftaylor · « **Reply #37 on:** April 01, 2005, 07:02:45 PM »

quido's pizza,
The two guys on this forum who are really interested in Patsy's specifically are myself and Varasano. However, there are a hundred guys looking for help on NYC pies in general. Might I recommend you joining the membership - it's free. You would have a lot of fun because we all love pizza.

You could add so much...

quidoPizza · « **Reply #38 on:** April 02, 2005, 01:25:34 AM »

hi pftaylor; i read on the other thread that patsy's is using sassone tomatoes. sassone dist. is on bronxdale ave. bronx new york. not sure who is packing those tomatoes and putting his name on them. but that can be found out by checking the code#'s on the can. i'm sure a few years ago they were NOT using sassone. they may have changed. sassone is a high quality dist. and only sells top stuff. and he's expensive. he would try to sell me the same flour i was getting for $10 a bag for $12.50. if i was you i would check who is the pizza dist suppliers in your area. and see what you can get. the fresh mozz they are using comes in a block. hard to find and in not very watery. an other trick on reg. mozz is that it has to be at least 30 days old. not more than 80 days. 45 days works best. allways use whole milk mozz. plus adding top shelf olive oil to your dough will give it a nice taste. john

pftaylor · « **Reply #39 on:** April 02, 2005, 05:19:09 AM »

quidoPizza,
I posted a response to your remarks about Jose on the Reverse thread. Also, I asked a few questions about ingredients there as well.