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Author Topic: Burts/Pequods  (Read 86060 times)

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Offline -HAZARD-

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Re: Burts/Pequods
« Reply #200 on: April 13, 2018, 11:29:25 AM »
I hope you all aren’t getting tired of hearing from me on this. When I latch on to something, I typically take it to the Nth degree.

I am now convinced the previous Food Network video was filmed entirely at the Pequods Chicago location. So, we are dealing with an authentic video of information. And they definitely ‘jazzed’ it up for television.

What I didn’t initially know, was that Pequods has an upstairs dinning area, where I believe the dough proofing, assembly, and finished product are being filmed. Mixing bowl shots I would say are still downstairs in the kitchen. They have the camera so zoomed in on the bowl, so as to not see the typical commercial kitchen.

In the split-second shots of the very fuzzy backgrounds in the video, I was seeing single double hung windows with green trees outside. And larger 4 person booths, and even a corner round-table booth. That didn’t fit my understanding of the first floor layout of Pequods from all videos and photos I’ve seen of the inside. Only after looking at Google street view of the rear of the building, did I see the neighborhood with green trees, and these double hung windows on the second floor. Which cued me into an upstairs dining area.

Another thing that was initially throwing me off, was the ‘rustic’ looking table in which they were filming the assembly and finished product shots. I thought to myself, why on earth would a commercial kitchen have that sort of rustic looking table to work on? You know what it is though? Pequods serves their pizzas in the pans, but the pan is set on a wood square tile to protect the real table. These tiles have varying finish of stain color. They simply lined up all those tiles covering an entire table to give a nice presentation for the pan in the video to sit on.

Finally, the brush used to add the oil [he says olive oil in the video] to the pan is brand new, never even used before. Only for filming!

SO, we have a genuine, yet photographically artistic, sequence of Pequods making their dough. The real deal.

Procedure:
- Vegetable Oil [could still be Corn Oil] into the bowl.
- Salt & Black Pepper added.
- Flour added.
- Water, Yeast, and SUGAR added. [He doesn’t say sugar, but there is no way its not in that mix of water and yeast].
- Knead.

Looking at the texture of their black pepper, I am able to see some that looks more leaf like, as in the shots from my reply #195. Therefor, I do believe it is just black pepper, and not a dry herb.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2018, 01:19:14 PM by -HAZARD- »

Offline PizzaGarage

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Re: Burts/Pequods
« Reply #201 on: April 13, 2018, 03:01:52 PM »
From the dough shots I've seen it's not black pepper.  Look at the pic of the specks, that's not black pepper, but it is black (I think).  It's a dried herb is what it looks like to me and would say Oregano, it can be Basil and from that pic has a Thyme shape.  I've been meaning to go over there and probably will in the next couple weeks.  I was at the morton grove place and my family was really non impressed, I hear the downtown is the best location.  I'll pick apart the dough and see, and also taste the sauce to see if it's close to what I made from the videos, which I was not impressed with either. Maybe it's awesome once all cooked on the pizza.

I don't believe the olive oil nor the temps.  600 degrees is past the smoke point of pure and EV and that crust should be pretty well burnt on a deck oven in the pan after 19 minutes direct on stone.  The only way I see that crust not burning is high hydration and oil and low sugar.  600 is way to high for a Chicago pan.  The crust at Burts and Morton grove tasted like a Bisquick mix.  The starting percent for herbs is .15%.  The videos do add great clues...

« Last Edit: April 13, 2018, 03:13:38 PM by PizzaGarage »

Offline -HAZARD-

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Re: Burts/Pequods
« Reply #202 on: April 13, 2018, 04:05:33 PM »
I agree with the olive oil not being in the pan.

The 600 degree reference is not the first time we've heard that. In the MvF video, the manager says it cooks in "19 1/2 minutes". The host continues saying "the 600 degree oven....". How else would they get it to cook in that timeframe if it were not that high?

As to the heat being way to high for a Chicago deep dish pan, perhaps it's because they truly are using a cast iron pan. There have been critics here doubting the cast iron pan. Why? Because they said it didn't look heavy enough. Everyone has cast iron in their head as being big, heavy, and thick. Like a Lodge pan we have at home. Cast iron could be made to same thicknesses as a standard pizza pan, thus giving it the same look and feel when handling. I dont think they'd continually go out of their way to say their pans are custom made for THEM, and that they are cast iron, if it weren't really the case.

As to the green flakes in the dough...I'm just not sure. Because I agree, when I go back to the MvF video, where he adds the cheese, it's very clear there is a few speckles of light green flake.

I'm almost ready to explain it away as, the very few photos/video where I've actually seen these questionable flakes, and not just black speckling, may honestly be just residual oregano that found it's way onto the surface of the dough. WheneverIi've seen it, it's only been 2-4 flakes, that look to be only on the surface, that make me question what was going on with it.

If one were actually to order a pizza from them, I think they would easily see whether it had herb flakes mixed into it or not. The hundreds of pictures of cut slices I've seen on the internet show no sign of a herb flake in it.

Offline PizzaGarage

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Re: Burts/Pequods
« Reply #203 on: April 15, 2018, 12:52:22 AM »
I’ve never seen a cast iron deep dish pizza pan, it would be very interesting to find one and try it.  The pans in the videos look like normal seasoned aluminum pans.  Also I don’t think you can create a rolled lip like the pans in the video with cast iron. If anyone has a link to a 2” Deep DD Cast Iron pizza pan with no handles ( more like a real DD pan) it would be great to see it....
« Last Edit: April 15, 2018, 12:18:46 PM by PizzaGarage »

Offline -HAZARD-

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Re: Burts/Pequods
« Reply #204 on: April 15, 2018, 12:31:45 PM »
Also I don’t think you can create a rolled lip like the pans in the video with cast iron.

Good Point!

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Offline PizzaGarage

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Re: Burts/Pequods
« Reply #205 on: April 15, 2018, 05:39:26 PM »
Just spend about an hour picking thru this pizza and crust and have come to conclusions.  Click pictures to expand for more detail

#1 - the specks in the dough are course ground pepper, included is a pic with the speck in a piece of the crust sitting in a plate of course ground pepper and a plate of dried oregano.  All the specks though out the crust are pretty much uniform and very small and that's not an herb.  The speck looks just like course ground pepper.

#2 - the sauce in the videos is the actual sauce, but with more sugar, it's rather sweet, but not too sweet.  The sauce has skin peals in it and chunks consistent with Autentico.  The sauce tasted the same as the batch I made but sweeter

#3 - the pans are not cast iron, they are seasoned aluminum

#4 - the oil is not olive, there was no olive flavor when tasting the very bottom of the crust, it was either veggie or corn, my take is corn

#5 - the crust is essentially flavorless, I don't think its fermented, its a same day and bulk fermented. 

#6 - the sausage is really excellent, a good hit of fennel and anise, well salted with black pepper as well

I enjoyed the pizza, it was good because of the uniqueness of the burnt cheese and the place itself.  It was absolutely jammed packed, people out the door.

« Last Edit: April 16, 2018, 02:36:09 PM by PizzaGarage »

Offline PizzaGarage

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Re: Burts/Pequods
« Reply #206 on: April 15, 2018, 05:43:17 PM »
more

you can see the specks in the small pieces of crust I broke off.  Compared to course ground black pepper on the plate.

Offline PizzaGarage

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Re: Burts/Pequods
« Reply #207 on: April 15, 2018, 05:47:30 PM »
And the speck compared to oregano.  Notice all the various oregano shapes, none of those kinds of shaped specks were in the crust anywhere after I basically tore the whole crust apart looking

Some various pics of the bland crust.

Offline PizzaGarage

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Re: Burts/Pequods
« Reply #208 on: April 15, 2018, 05:49:23 PM »
More including skin from the sauce and fresh basil



Offline PizzaGarage

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Re: Burts/Pequods
« Reply #209 on: April 15, 2018, 05:57:26 PM »
I feel this crust would not be light in color with 600 degrees and 19.5 minutes, its a rather high oil content dough but not high hydration.  I think this crust will burn, but worth a try at 600 to see for sure.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2018, 07:20:47 PM by PizzaGarage »

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Offline -HAZARD-

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Re: Burts/Pequods
« Reply #210 on: April 17, 2018, 09:55:17 AM »
Fantastic job PizzaGarage!!!

The additional sweetness you noted to their sauce is interesting. I will have to experiment with that. I just received a can each of the two sauces, so I am anxious to get to work on this. Ugh...I paid a lot of $$$ for those sauces, but if you dont have an "IN" with buying wholesale, I guess that's how it goes....

You sound pretty convinced that the pans are aluminum. Any chance that they are the 'tin-plated steel' pans? Again, just going back to the fact that they are so adamant about them being "cast iron". I'd at least like to think we could give them the benefit of doubt that they are at least made from steel, when they make such a bold claim.


Offline -HAZARD-

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Re: Burts/Pequods
« Reply #211 on: April 17, 2018, 10:14:48 AM »
Oh, one more thing I wanted to make mention of.

Looking at the oil going into the bowl of that latest Food Network video, to me, the oil looks more true in color to vegetable oil vs. corn oil. My thoughts are that corn oil would have a more yellow look to it.




Offline PizzaGarage

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Re: Burts/Pequods
« Reply #212 on: April 19, 2018, 01:46:46 PM »
Fantastic job PizzaGarage!!!

The additional sweetness you noted to their sauce is interesting. I will have to experiment with that. I just received a can each of the two sauces, so I am anxious to get to work on this. Ugh...I paid a lot of $$$ for those sauces, but if you dont have an "IN" with buying wholesale, I guess that's how it goes....

You sound pretty convinced that the pans are aluminum. Any chance that they are the 'tin-plated steel' pans? Again, just going back to the fact that they are so adamant about them being "cast iron". I'd at least like to think we could give them the benefit of doubt that they are at least made from steel, when they make such a bold claim.

Yes, I am convinced they are aluminum they were lite like aluminum as opposed to steel even thin steel.  Tin plate would not normally be used due to durability required while serving pizza in the pan and being cut and served from the pan with a heavy stainless steel spatula.  The Tin coating is softer and would be scratched severely if being used like this, the pan was not scratched up.  Also, pans being used to serve food must be washed the same as any other kitchen utensil, Tin would not be a good choice for durability or washing, if the Tin wears ( or is scratched thru to the steel) the steel is exposed and then we have rust in the pans.  There is nothing significant with the pans, just well used and well seasoned aluminum in my opinion.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2018, 01:48:57 PM by PizzaGarage »

Offline vcb

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Re: Burts/Pequods
« Reply #213 on: April 19, 2018, 03:12:25 PM »
Might be aluminum, but they looked a bit like the blue steel pans that have been seasoned with oil or that sticky gunk you have to bake before you use them. I have a few of those I got from Krasny on Elston.
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Offline PizzaGarage

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Re: Burts/Pequods
« Reply #214 on: April 19, 2018, 11:15:28 PM »
Think about blue steel pans for a minute.  All a blue steel pan is just a steel pan with a coating which results in a blue or black color.   They are not meant to be used in a dishwasher ( hand wash only) and need to be maintained typically with mineral oil.  Remember, the pans at Pequods are served on the table which means they are washed and sanitized. Blue steel was never meant to deal with consistent washing, sanitizing and being submerged in water.  The coating also is not meant to resist scratching, the coating cuts right through, using a stainless steel spatula in a blue steel pan results in cuts and slices right thru the coating to the metal = rust.  I’ve got the original blue steel pans, Shaun’s version of the blue steel pan and the new “blue steel pans” developed at Lloyd’s which they call “type 3 hard coat” which is probably their awesome pstk coating.  Blue steel would never work in an operation like Pequods.

There is no taste or flavor provided by blue steel pans and there is no such thing as a cast iron pizza pan with a rolled lip, or for that matter a cast iron deep dish pizza pan that looks like and weighs like aluminum and used in mass quantity in a pizzeria.  If people are told an authentic Detroit blue steel pan adds flavor to the pizza because of the special coating it makes them think the pizza is special.  If the same is said about using a cast iron pizza pan it’s for the same reason.

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Offline -HAZARD-

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Re: Burts/Pequods
« Reply #215 on: April 20, 2018, 11:26:43 AM »
I had honestly thought to ask you to bring a magnet with you when you were planning to go, specifically to check that.

But you said you were going in a few weeks...and then just days later, you had already gone!  :-D

So, I throw out the challenge to anyone else that goes, to check that out and report back your findings.

I don't know why I continue to doubt this. Nor do I think it even matters to the overall replication at home, but I just want to know.

I have noticed their pans become dented pretty good. I have also seen in videos that the bottom of the pans have warped pretty good over time and that the center is deflected down more than the edges, and the pan easily spins on the counter because of that. Not sure if this warpage is indicative to one material over the other.

Here is one of the clearest shots I've seen of their pans, but we can't see inside.

Offline John1959

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Re: Burts/Pequods
« Reply #216 on: April 21, 2018, 10:05:18 AM »
Not cast iron, steel or aluminum. Cast metals don't bend much, if any before they crack. Looks like just regular banged up aluminum pans to me.
I suppose it is possible they could be custom made with the rough texture on the sides to appear to be cosmetically like cast metal and they may not be banged up through years of use.
I have seen aluminum sauce pots get pitted after years of making tomato sauce but that wouldn't explain the roughness on the outside of the pan, and there isn't much sauce exposure to the insides of these.
I am a machinist with close to 30 years experience and I am fairly knowledgeable about metal.

And here is a video about going outside while wearing an aluminum pan on your head.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2018, 10:39:35 AM by John1959 »

Offline vcb

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Re: Burts/Pequods
« Reply #217 on: April 21, 2018, 02:22:26 PM »
The pans must be some sort of plated aluminum or steel if they're not seasoned blue (bare) steel .
If they were straight aluminum, they would react with the tomato sauce that combines with the cheese to make the char crust,
 and that would make the pizzas taste metallic, right?

We'd have to find out how they're sanitizing their pans after use. You could technically wipe out the pans, bake them empty to kill the bugs, and re-season them with oil if necessary at the end of (or start of) each shift. 

Here's an article I found from Tom Lehman about pan seasoning where he talks about re-using seasoned pans.
https://www.pizzatoday.com/dough-doctor-pan-seasoning-isnt-just-flavor/

Quote
To clean your seasoned pans, just pass them through the oven to heat them and then wipe them out with a clean towel and put them away for the next use. If your health department wants you to wash the pans, you will need to change over to a dark color anodized finish pan.
-- Ed Heller -aka- VCBurger -- Real Deep Dish - Deep Dish 101
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MAKING PIZZA AT HOME?
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Offline John1959

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Re: Burts/Pequods
« Reply #218 on: April 21, 2018, 09:21:17 PM »
The pans must be some sort of plated aluminum or steel if they're not seasoned blue (bare) steel .
If they were straight aluminum, they would react with the tomato sauce that combines with the cheese to make the char crust,
 and that would make the pizzas taste metallic, right?


You would sure think so.
I also am wondering if the texture on the pan sides is deliberately there to keep the cheese from sliding down the pan sides as it melts?
« Last Edit: April 21, 2018, 10:53:09 PM by John1959 »

Online Jackitup

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Re: Burts/Pequods
« Reply #219 on: April 21, 2018, 10:57:34 PM »
If I didn't know better I would say they were galvanized!
« Last Edit: April 21, 2018, 11:00:58 PM by Jackitup »
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