Jets pizza

[Pete-zza]

Tommy,

It looks like you are all set. It will be almost impossible to weigh the sauce because a fair amount of the water content of the sauce is driven off during baking, leaving only essentially a "skin" of sauce on the dough. When I have done "before" and "after" weighings of pizzas, the losses have been around 7-8%. But that is for a flat pizza, not a pan pizza. My recollection is that the percent loss is less for a pan-type pizza such as a Chicago deep-dish pizza.

Thanks again for contributing to the cause.

Peter

[Tommy Nott]

Okay, here is my first attempt to do "reconnaissance" on a Jet's small cheese pizza.

First: the guy who took my order seemed "suspicious" about my inquiring about things, so I decided to hold off on the sauce question.  The conversation went like this:

Me: "Hi, I'm thinking I want a small cheese pizza, but ... when you make it, do you just grab cheese and put it on, or do you measure it and use a specific amount".

Him: "We measure it". (eyes actually narrowed in reaction to this question - sheesh!)

Me: "Oh, how much do you put on?"

Him: "Well, we use whats on the chart."

Me: "Oh you have a chart?" (turning to look and find it)

Him: "You can't see it."

Me: "Oh ... well, on a small cheese pizza how much would that be?"

Him: "It will be the amount on the chart - we follow it pretty closely."

Me: "Oh I don't doubt your ability to put the correct amount on, I'm asking for nutritional reasons - I'm strictly tracking my dairy intake and need to be aware of it."

Him: "Oh. We put 5 ounces on."

Me: "So if I ordered double cheese it would be 10 ounces, then?"

Him: "No...no... believe me, you don't want 10 ounces of cheese, that would be wayyy too much. When people order extra cheese, we just use the regular 5 ounces, and then add some more as a 'topping', we don't actually double the amount".

Me: "Ahhh - so 10 ounces would be way too much?"

Him: "Yeah, definitely."

Me: "Okay, well then I'll take a small square cheese pizza - can I get that uncut?"

Him: "Sure! People actually order it that way all the time."

....I try to watch them make the pizza, but they have their "topping/assembly" area pretty well concealed behind some metal partition/dividers. I did notice, however, that that conveyor oven was set to 475 degrees on the top conveyor, and 432 degrees on the lower conveyor. My pizza went through the top conveyor. I failed to time it, I was too busy looking around for evidence of anything I could use.

Next post: my pics.

[Tommy Nott]

The pics.

First: the weighing. When I asked my wife to get out our kitchen scale before she left on our trip, I didn't realize what a crappy scale we have LOL. This thing is awful, I don't know if we can really trust these weights - it seems AWFULLY light to me. But if the numbers seem impossible, let me know - and I'll see about getting a better scale for the next attempt. At least we have my measurements too.

First, our scale with nothing on it (included because - well, you'll see: our scale does NOT sit at zero LOL):

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/841/image017ua.jpg/

As you can see, our scale sits at 1.1 ounces with nothing on it. :/

Not sure how to make photos visible in my post, so we'll have to live with links for now. Sorry guys. Moderator: if you can fix this, please do.
Moving along....

Next, the image of the scale with the pizza on it:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/252/image019g.jpg/

So with the pizza on it, the weight is 1.6 ounces - exactly 5 ounces heavier.  I have trouble believing that that entire pizza only weighs 5 ounces! It felt like at least a pound to me... thats why I think I need to get a better scale and weight it again.  Also - the guy told me that they put 5 ounces of cheese on the thing... maybe the cheese gets lighter with cooking, but for the entire pizza to only weigh as much as the cheese afterwards, well - that just doesn't seem right to me.
So lets move on to what I consider the "better measurements" with tape measure.

First - pizza measured across (short way) - is pretty much exactly 7 inches:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/641/image020ne.jpg/

Next - pizza measure longways - is pretty much exactly 9 inches:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/213/image021t.jpg/

Next - thickness measured from the middle - is about 1.25 inches:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/228/image022tj.jpg/

Thickness measurement two - further out towards edge - still about 1.25 inches:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/189/image023pv.jpg/

Thickness measurement three - taken near corner on outer edge - still around 1.25 inches:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/263/image024xo.jpg/

Thickness measurement four - taken on another edge still further away out from center - again, around 1.25 inches - fairly consistent:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/228/image025it.jpg/

Next, I peeled the cheese back from the dough over part of the pizza, and took a measurement of just the "dough thickness" with no cheese on top. Here is just a shot of the cheese peeled back, so you can see what I'm measuring in the next pic:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/692/image027cu.jpg/

Thickness measurement five - about the same spot as measurement four - but now with the cheese peeled back away from it - again, just a bit under 1.25 inches(maybe closer to the inch mark) - surprisingly (to me), the cheese doesn't really add any significant height.  The most interesting part of this pic, in my opinion, is you can see the line where the dough goes from being "cooked" to more "raw", at about a quarter-inch height from the bottom. Look carefully and you will see it:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/220/image028e.jpg/

And finally, a shot of the bottom - shiny with oil, and definitely a bit "fried" - that Jet's pizza trademark:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/526/image026jo.jpg/


I realized too late that I forgot to measure it across the bottom. Sorry about that, but I can get it next time.

Hopefully these images are of some use, and hopefully the moderator can make them visible without you having to click the links.

Thanks!

-Tommy Nott

[Pete-zza]

Tommy,

Thank you for the information on the small square cheese pizza you purchased from Jet's.

On the matter of attaching photos to posts, you might want to take a look at the thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8671.0.html. If that thread doesn't apply, you might want to look at other threads on posting photos under the general Forum Info board at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/board,40.0.html.

I don't know what is going on with your kitchen scale. All scales, both analog and digital, have some way of zeroing out the scale. Obviously, the pizza weighed more than five ounces. You might try weighing objects whose weight you know to see if the scale is not operating properly for some reason. If you can correct the problem, then you will have to buy another pizza and go through the same exercise again. However, your measurements confirm that the Jet's you visited is using an 8" x 10" pan for the small square pizzas.

On the matter of the amount of cheese used, do you know if the amount was by weight or by volume? Many pizza places use portioning cups to measure out the amount of cheese for their pizzas. I do not recall seeing the use of such portioning cups in any of the videos pertaining to Jet's operations. What I saw was free-throwing of the shredded cheese.

Also, do you recall seeing the oil added to the pan or was the dough already in the pan at the time your pizza was made?

While you resolve the matter with your scale, I will take a look at the Jet's nutrition data at http://jetspizza.com/nutrition/category/13 to see if the five ounces of cheese looks right for a small Jet's square cheese pizza, either from a weight standpoint or a volume standpoint, based on using the Grande shredded mozzarella cheese, which I understand the Jet's stores are supposed to be using (I believe that they are using the low-moisture part-skim Grande mozzarella cheese).

Peter

[Tommy Nott]

Pete,

I'm going to get another scale and try again. No worries about buying another: this is a fairly regular Saturday night thing for me .

For the amount of cheese: actually, I did see a scale with a metal bowl up above their assembly area (on top of the metal divider that hides the view) - and I did see them put cheese into the bowl (apparently weighing it) and then taking the bowl down off the scale and (apparently) putting the cheese they weighed onto the pizza. My best guess here would be that they weigh the cheese (5 ounces) for a small pizza.

I did not see them add oil to the pan - in fact, I didn't even see them pull my pizza out before assembling... it was like it was just magically there at the assembly station. I will pay more attention for that particular detail next Saturday.

Also - I noticed a typo in my own post earlier: I stated that in the "thickness" photo you could see where the dough goes from "cooked" to raw, and that it was at about 1/4-inch high... looking at the picture again, I was wrong - it's actually at about the half-inch mark, NOT the quarter-inch.  So correction: dough goes from cooked to "raw" at a half-inch above the bottom. Not sure whether that matters or is relevant, but thought I would clarify it since I mis-stated it in my post.

Thanks,

-Tommy Nott

[Pete-zza]

Tommy,

Five ounces of mozzarella cheese by weight does not seem to square with the nutrition information for a small square pizza as given at http://jetspizza.com/nutrition/category/13. I come to this conclusion based on the cholesterol amount given in the Jet's nutrition chart. That amount is 6 x 25 = 150 mg for a small six-slice Jet's square cheese pizza. The only cholesterol in a cheese pizza is in the cheese. There is none in the dough and there is none in the sauce and there is none in the corn oil used in the pan. If we assume that the cheese being is the shredded low-moisture part-skim Grande mozzarella cheese as described at http://www.grandecheese.com/products/Pages/Product_Spec.aspx?ProductMasterID=18, then to get 150 mg cholesterol, you would need 10 ounces of that cheese. The actual amount might vary a bit because of rounding factors, but it will not be anywhere near 5 ounces. The only other possible explanations that I can come up with is that the Jet's worker gave you incorrect information or that Jet's is using a custom mozzarella cheese from Grande, or a different mozzarella cheese, or maybe it is using less cheese, which would suggest that the Jet's nutrition information is not up to date. Before you get your next pizza I will shred some low-moisture part-skim mozarella cheese (a local supermarket brand) to see what 5 ounces by volume weighs just to have that number.

Mozzarella cheese also includes saturated fat but corn oil also includes some saturated fat so it is hard to apportion the saturated fat between the cheese and the corn oil without having a fairly accurate fix on the amount of cheese used. Likewise with the salt. Salt is present in the cheese, the sauce and the dough.

The above makes it doubly important to get an accurate weight for a small Jet's square cheese pizza. In so doing, you might want to read the posts starting at Replies 70-75 starting at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8247.msg135948.html#msg135948 where member PizzaHog went through a similar exercise as you did with your last Jet's pizza. You will note that Hog mentioned that the Jet's pizza store he went to was using the Grande part-skim mozzarella cheese.

Peter

[Pete-zza]

Tommy,

Last night, I measured out five ounces of shredded mozzarella cheese by volume. I used a standard supermarket brand (Lucerne) of low-moisture part skim mozzarella cheese. Five ounces of shredded mozzarella cheese by weight is about 142 grams. For five ounces of the shredded mozzarella cheese when measured out volumetrically, I got about 50 grams (about 1.76 ounces by weight). When I packed the shredded mozzarella cheese down into the measuring cup as much as I could, which is not a method used by pizzerias, I got around 83 grams by weight (a bit under 3 ounces by weight). So, if the number you were given is 5 ounces, the only thing that that can mean is 5 ounces by weight.

To dig into this further, and particularly the cholesterol issued I raised recently in this thread in relation to the cholesterol number given at the Jet's website for a small square cheese pizza, this morning I called the Grande Cheese Company where I was referred to a sales rep. You might recall that Pizza Hog mentioned that he saw the Grande low-fat mozzarella cheese being used at the Jet's store he visited. The only mozzarella cheese that I have heard about or read about as being used by Jet's is a part-skim mozzarella cheese. And the only brand of that cheese that I have heard about or read about is the Grande brand. That was confirmed to me by Grande itself.

The Grande rep I spoke with today said that there are three Grande mozzarella-only cheese products described at their website--a Whole Milk Mozzarella, a Part-Skim Mozzarella and an East Coast Blend. The East Coast Blend is a 50/50 blend of the Whole Milk Mozzarella and the Part-Skim Mozzarella. I asked the rep if Grande did any custom blending of mozzarella cheeses. She hemmed and hawed on that question, possibly because she preferred to promote their standard offerings, but finally said that custom blending might be an option, but one that would have to be discussed with others in Grande. The impression I got was that it was not an especially common option. In any event, custom blending is something that most likely would apply to an end user with a need for a lot of cheese, quite possibly a pizza chain. An individual would be able to do his or her own shredding and blending of the Grande cheeses to achieve any desired ratio.

I also asked the Grande rep whether a blend of their Whole Milk and Part-Skim mozzarella cheeses could be called "part-skim", for example, if there was more of the Part-Skim mozzarella cheese than the Whole Milk mozzarella cheese in the blend. This question stumped her, most likely because that is not a question that is posed to her very often. She really didn't have an answer to that question and simply said that an end user could decide on the makeup of the blend. I personally think that Jet's would be misleading the public and possibly even be in violation of FDA regulations if it were using a blend of whole milk and part-skim mozzarella cheeses and called it a part-skim mozzarella cheese.

Any way you look at the Grande numbers, and especially those for cholesterol, there is no way for five ounces of any of their mozzarella cheese products to meet the numbers given in the nutrition section of Jet's website for a small square cheese pizza. If you look at the labels of just about any mozzarella cheese, you will discover that the range of cholesterol levels is between about 15-20 mg per ounce (by weight). This applies to just about any brand of mozzarella cheese.

We also shouldn't rule out the possibility that you were shortchanged on the amount of mozzarella cheese used on the small square cheese pizza that you purchased. It is quite common for pizza operators who are trying to achieve certain profit goals to cut back on the amount of cheese. Mozzarella cheese is usually the most expensive part of a chain type pizza and it is easy to cut back on the amount used, whether using a scale or just free throwing. That is one of the reasons why it is important to have the weight data. Of course, the worker in the Jet's store you visited could have intentionally or unintentionally misled you.

Peter

[Tommy Nott]

I was not able to do my pizza last night due to a last-minute work obligation .... so I am now planning for next weekend again.

Pete - I'm inclined to think that the guy I spoke with simply was not being honest with me - he seemed really suspicious that I would ask anything (for instance, at my very first question "do you guys actually measure or just eyeball it?" his eyes actually narrowed and he looked like I had just asked him for the key to his safe-deposit box or something) - so I'm guessing he just didn't feel like sharing.

I did get Jets pizza on Friday (a co-worker and I went in on a medium square pizza) - so I had some opportunity to do a little more observing at a different Jets location. My observations at this location were as follows:

1.) For square pizzas - I saw them bring the them out from a cooler already pressed into the pan and already with cheese put on top of them (and so, I assume the sauce as well, under the cheese).

2.) I did watch them make some of their round pizzas, which they were doing right in front.  They grabbed some pre-made balls of dough, pressed them out onto the round cooking things they have for them (round screen-like things), then put the sauce, cheese, and other toppings on. For these round pizzas, they absolutely DID NOT measure the cheese... just just "free-handed it" and gave it a good covering - but they used no instruments of measurement, and just grabbed the cheese (already shredded in a big container in front of them) and threw it on until the pie was covered. I asked the guy at the counter about it, and he flat out said "we don't measure, we just grab it and put it on" - I asked if that was true of the square pizzas too, and he said yes. So according to this location: they don't measure. And for the round ones, I witnessed it - they were not measuring.

3.) Disturbing fact: there were three people making those round pizzas in front of me - two male employees and one female. Both of the males, before making the pizza, grabbed those little clear-plastic gloves and put them on before handling the dough and cheese/etc... The female employee did NOT put those gloves on, and proceeded to handle the pies she was making barehanded, including sticking her bare hands into that big bin of shredded cheese to grab it - AND I witnessed her scratch her nose and wipe her forehead in the middle of the process.  I was less than impressed, and tempted to call the manager. I'm thinking I will not return to that particular Jets location again. Ewww.... just.... ewww.... nasty.

4.) I examined the medium pizza I got pretty carefully - it looks like it got cooked "a little more" than the small, with the cooked part of the dough coming up higher and the "raw part" of the dough being only a very thin layer on top (as opposed to the half-inch or so on my small from last week).  Either that is a "medium size" thing, and they can't cook it to the same specs ... OR - (and I suspect this is more likely the truth) - this particular Jets location just doesn't really care about following strict standards for consistency, and probably doesn't do anything "the same" all the time, as evidenced by their "we don't measure the cheese" policy...  All in all, I think this particular location is a poor choice for trying to get a feel for what Jets pizza is all about. Also - the pizza was "okay", and definitely Jets, but still not as good as the stuff I get from the locations around my house (including "the original" location, which is where my small from last week came from).

...'til next week.  Oh - I'm also going to be purchasing a new scale.

[Tommy Nott]

Okay, I bought a working scale (the one at Bed, Bath, & Beyond that's from "The Biggest Loser")...

Got a small cheese pizza, uncut - and weighed it several times.

It weighed in at 1 pound, 5.3 ounces.

Or, 21.3 ounces.

There were a few times it weighed at 1 pound 5.4 (0.1 ounces more) - but after repeated weighing 21.3 ounces was the more common weight (about 8 to 2).

So there is the weight.

What next?

-TommyNott

[Pete-zza]

Tommy,

Thank you for the weight information on your latest small square Jet's cheese pizza.

According to the Jet's nutrition information at http://jetspizza.com/nutrition/category/13, a small square Jet's cheese pizza should weigh 6 x 114 grams = 684 grams, or 24.13 ounces (684/28.35 = 24.13 ounces). So, you pizza was underweight by 24.13-21.3 = 2.83 ounces. There will be a slight loss in weight of the pizza from the store to your home as the pizza cools down, but that loss is usually very small if you live close by the store. My guess is that you may have been shortchanged on the amount of cheese. Did you sense that there was less cheese than usual? And can you venture a guess as to the amount of cheese that was on your pizza?

I think the next step is to contact Jet's to get an explanation as to the shortfall. That might also be the time to try to get an answer as to the amount of mozzarella cheese that is supposed to be used on a small square Jet's cheese pizza based on the cholesterol quantity given in the Jet's nutrition information and what Grande reports at its website for shredded low-moisture part-skim mozzarella cheese. If you go to http://jetspizza.com/contact and click on the Nutrition Information link, you will get a pop-up form to use to raise the issues of the shortfall in weight and the cholesterol levels.

If you'd like me to help you phrase the questions to use in the Jet's form, let me know. It would help in that case to know how far you live, by time or distance, from the Jet's store you visited and also whether you are a regular customer at that store, or at other Jet's stores, and for how long. You will note that the Jet's form requires that you identify which Jet's store you visited.

Right now, your latest pizza does not fit the Jet's nutrition information. There may be a perfectly good explanation for this but I'd like to know what it is. 

Peter

[Tommy Nott]

I'm willing to do that, yes. Actually, this pizza was right from "the original" Jets party store location at 14 Mile & Ryan (Sterling Heights, MI). I live two miles north, at 16 Mile & Ryan (still Sterling Heights).

However, this particular pizza did suffer a delay on the way home in the form of my wife stopping at CVS to buy a few things.

So lets do it this way:

I'm going to give them another chance, next Saturday. This time, I will get the pizza myself, drive it straight home, and put it immediately on the scale. I'll keep track of time too, from when it was in my hands to when I weigh it.

If next week's pizza once again appears to be "under-weight", then yes I definitely want to use that form you mentioned - and yes, I also would appreciate your help in phrasing the questions/etc...

I will report time from handoff to weigh-in and what the weight is next Saturday night.

Oh - and to answer your other question: no, it didn't seem like less cheese to me. It seemed like a typical small square Jets cheese pizza. Thats not to say it wasn't light though.  I just don't know if I'd notice 2 ounces of missing cheese in the context of an entire pizza.

Thanks,

-Tommy Nott

[Pete-zza]

Tommy,

A pizza will lose some weight as it cools down but it should not be a lot. For example, if you look at Reply 213 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6758.msg107567/topicseen.html#msg107567, you will see that I calculated the weight loss of a basic Papa John's pizza to be 3 grams from the store to my home. However, to give Jet's one less reason to question the weight in your case, it may be a good idea to buy another pizza and weigh it as soon as you can. In my case, I brought my scale and a pizza screen with me to PJs and bought the pizza uncut. I tared the screen on my scale and then put the just-baked pizza on top of the screen to weigh it. I did this in my car in the PJ parking lot. I repeated the weighing as soon as I got home and from that weighing I calculated the weight loss from the store to my home. According to what a PJ rep told me some time ago, the Federal regulations permit some variance from the weights of pizzas stated in nutrition information. That might be the explanation in this case, especially if you hit the Jet's store at a very busy time, but I want Jet's to tell us that (without prompting by us) if we eventually contact them on this matter. I'd also like to know if the Jet's store you visited habitually makes underweight pizzas. I suppose that there is also a possibility that the Jet's nutrition information is not up to date or is incorrect in some respect. These days, the nutrition information is typically done by specialized software, either in-house or outsourced.

Peter

[Tommy Nott]

Pizza #3:

The kid making it was very easygoing and talkative - I watched him throw the cheese up on the scale (scale face is away from me though, so I can't see the weight)... I asked if he always weighs it or if he can just freehand it sometimes... he laughed and said "No, I have to weigh it every time"... I asked him how much he had to use, and he replied "For a small cheese pizza? 6 ounces".  So that was one ounce more than what the other guy told me. (however, they probably have to take into account the container they weigh it in, so maybe he is just used to seeing "6 ounces" as the target weight, with 1 ounce being the container?  I don't know, since I couldn't see the scale face.

So here is the breakdown of the pizza making process:

They had a stack of about 3-4 small pizza pans with the dough already pressed in sitting next to the assembly station. That stack was in a plastic bag, which had a fair amount of condensation building up inside it, so I'd say it had been in a cooler for several hours at least prior to being brought out.

They grab one out of the bag, put on the sauce (couldn't see this very well), then weigh the cheese and put it over the top.

He put the pie on the conveyor at 9:04PM (conveyor was set to 475 degrees for the top conveyor, where the pizza was going).
He pulled it off the other end at 9:12PM, boxed it and handed it to me uncut.
I was putting it on my scale at 9:21PM, 9 minutes later.

This pizza weighed in at 1 pound, 5.4 ounces - or 21.4 ounces.   Exactly 0.1 ounces heavier than last weeks pie. I weighed it several times over the course of two minutes, and it was the exact same weigh every time until the very end, when suddenly it lost 0.1 (weighing in at 21.3 ounces now - IDENTICAL to last week, which - if you recall - was delayed in the weighing).

I would say that this pizza was exactly to standard, since two of them one week apart weighed in within 0.1 ounces of each other and after time lapse weighed the same.

Then I got a little crazy.

I scraped off the cheese as best as I could and weighed just that: it weighed in at 5.3 ounces .... however, there was some cheese stuck along the edges, kind of burned into the crust... so there was probably more like 5.5 ounces of cheese total....

So, in summary:

Pizza-kid says 6 ounces of cheese - which he was definitely weighing on a scale and not freehanding.
Cooking time 7-8 minutes at 475 degrees
Pizza weight 21.3 - 21.4 ounces
Cheese alone 5.3 - 5.5 ounces.

-Tommy Nott

[Pete-zza]

Tommy,

Now, that is two Jet's small square cheese pizzas in a row that don't seem to fit the Jet's Nutrition Facts. I think it may be appropriate to send an email to Jet's on the matter. I don't want anyone to think that Jet's has done anything wrong so tomorrow I will send you a PM with a proposed email to send to Jet's.

Peter

[norma427]

This was my next attempt for a Jet’s pizza, using the new steel pans (8”x10”) I purchased.  I used the same formula I used the last time, but did change the flour to the PFM Mondako flour.  The steel pan was seasoned before the bake one time.  I used a fair amount of corn oil in the steel pan for this attempt, but the bottom crust still didn’t get crunchy.  The attempt still did taste very good and was light and fluffy.  There wasn’t much corn oil left in the pan, after the bake, so the dough must have soak-up most of the corn oil, while proofing or in the bake.  I will try to season the pan again before another attempt at a Jet’s pizza is made.

Norma

[norma427]

Norma

[norma427]

Norma

[norma427]

Norma

[norma427]

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[norma427]

Norma