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Author Topic: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza  (Read 487594 times)

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Online Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1260 on: July 11, 2017, 02:54:15 PM »
How come the edges of pepperoni turn burnt? I've tried various brands they all do it.
MadMatt,

I'm glad to see that you achieved good results with your latest pizza.

As for the charred edges of your pepperoni, that is what is often referred to in the U.S. as "cup & char". As I understand it, that characteristic is achieved with a collagen casing that allows pepperoni slices to “pop” into cups that hold natural juices and flavor, while the edges turning crispy and dark (char). I don't know offhand whether slice size is a limitation but it seems that small slices tend to have the cup & char characteristic more than the larger slices that tend to stay relatively flat.

Peter

Offline Kreetak

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1261 on: July 11, 2017, 03:28:05 PM »
Wow MadMatt! Looks very tasty and great! I want a slice  :P

Offline csnack

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1262 on: July 11, 2017, 07:36:20 PM »


How come the edges of pepperoni turn burnt? I've tried various brands they all do it.

Good looking pizza Matt! Funny though how you seem unhappy about the pepperoni char, as I've been trying to get my pepperoni to do that since I started pizza at home. I've got one other idea to try to make it happen, but it just doesn't come easy in my oven. Granted, though, the pepperoni cup and char is not really a characteristic of American style pizza, at least not any typical American I've ever seen.

Offline Hermit

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1263 on: July 11, 2017, 08:43:07 PM »
A 'lil slice after a hard days work.  Western Bacon Cheeseburger using a PJ clone dough.


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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1264 on: July 11, 2017, 09:48:09 PM »

Good looking pizza Matt! Funny though how you seem unhappy about the pepperoni char, as I've been trying to get my pepperoni to do that since I started pizza at home. I've got one other idea to try to make it happen, but it just doesn't come easy in my oven. Granted, though, the pepperoni cup and char is not really a characteristic of American style pizza, at least not any typical American I've ever seen.
Christian,

Very early in this thread, I posted a photo of a typical real PJ pepperoni pizza, which I have reposted below and that confirms what you said about cup & char not being characteristic of an American style pizza--at least not a typical PJ pepperoni pizza.

Peter

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Offline csnack

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1265 on: July 19, 2017, 05:45:45 AM »
A 'lil slice after a hard days work.  Western Bacon Cheeseburger using a PJ clone dough.
What did you use for sauce on that? I've been thinking about making a burger pizza and was considering what to use as a base sauce. Not that it wouldn't be good, but I wouldn't want to use standard pizza sauce. I can use the burger sauce I make that's like a Big Mac sauce, or even ranch. I saw on the web somewhere that someone used mustard as their base. I like mustard, but that's a little much. Maybe straight crushed tomatoes w/ salt and sugar only so it's not pizza-ey, but closer to ketchup. Yeah.

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1266 on: July 19, 2017, 08:34:38 AM »
What did you use for sauce on that? I've been thinking about making a burger pizza and was considering what to use as a base sauce. Not that it wouldn't be good, but I wouldn't want to use standard pizza sauce. I can use the burger sauce I make that's like a Big Mac sauce, or even ranch. I saw on the web somewhere that someone used mustard as their base. I like mustard, but that's a little much. Maybe straight crushed tomatoes w/ salt and sugar only so it's not pizza-ey, but closer to ketchup. Yeah.
I used 2oz sweet baby rays sauce mixed with 5.5oz of my pizza sauce.  Next time I'm going for 3oz of the bbq and 4.5 of the pizza sauce.  Tasted great.

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1267 on: July 20, 2017, 04:02:18 PM »
Peter,

Like I said you... here we are with the real Papa Jhon's pizza in Spain (Madrid). Tomatoes, onion, york and mushrooms. I think that they changed something, because I tasted the pizza a little different. Maybe the cheese or it's only me, I don't know.

PS: The garlic sauce hasn't margarine or butter.


« Last Edit: July 20, 2017, 04:13:16 PM by Pete-zza »

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1268 on: July 20, 2017, 04:03:01 PM »
The last pic.

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1269 on: July 20, 2017, 04:49:36 PM »
Kreetak,

Thank you very much for the photos. I wasn't sure of the orientation of the photo of the pizza in the box so I turned it around a bit and hope that I did it correctly.

For your information, I put the ingredients statement for the garlic sauce into the Google Translator and got the following translation into English:

Sunflower oil, Water, Emulsifiers (Gum Arabic, xanthan Gum), Salt, dehydrated Garlic, Flavouring (soy), natural Aroma of garlic, Conservative (Sodium Benzoate, lactic acid), Coloring (Beta Carotene), and acidity (citric acid)

In the U.S., Papa John's uses the following ingredients for its garlic sauce:

Soybean oil, water, salt, vegetable mono & diglycerides, garlic, natural flavors, soy lecithin, lactic acid, sodium benzoate, calcium disodium EDTA, citric acid, natural beta carotene, vitamin A palmitate.

In both cases, I would describe the garlic sauces as being margarine-based, with the oil (sunflower oil or soybean oil) being made semi-solid by the use of emulsifiers (gum Arabic and xanthan gum or vegetable mono & diglycerides). Both products have water, salt, natural flavors and colors, preservatives and citric acid. It would be interesting to see if your PJ garlic sauce in Madrid tastes like the PJ version in the U.S. Actually, I think the sunflower oil may produce a more natural product, including the gum Arabic and xanthan gums, both of which are considered more natural ingredients.

In your post, you mentioned "york". Did you mean pork (or sausage) by any chance, or is it something else? And are there slices of fresh tomato on the pizza you showed?

Peter


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Offline Kreetak

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1270 on: July 20, 2017, 05:32:48 PM »
Kreetak,

Thank you very much for the photos. I wasn't sure of the orientation of the photo of the pizza in the box so I turned it around a bit and hope that I did it correctly.

For your information, I put the ingredients statement for the garlic sauce into the Google Translator and got the following translation into English:

Sunflower oil, Water, Emulsifiers (Gum Arabic, xanthan Gum), Salt, dehydrated Garlic, Flavouring (soy), natural Aroma of garlic, Conservative (Sodium Benzoate, lactic acid), Coloring (Beta Carotene), and acidity (citric acid)

In the U.S., Papa John's uses the following ingredients for its garlic sauce:

Soybean oil, water, salt, vegetable mono & diglycerides, garlic, natural flavors, soy lecithin, lactic acid, sodium benzoate, calcium disodium EDTA, citric acid, natural beta carotene, vitamin A palmitate.

In both cases, I would describe the garlic sauces as being margarine-based, with the oil (sunflower oil or soybean oil) being made semi-solid by the use of emulsifiers (gum Arabic and xanthan gum or vegetable mono & diglycerides). Both products have water, salt, natural flavors and colors, preservatives and citric acid. It would be interesting to see if your PJ garlic sauce in Madrid tastes like the PJ version in the U.S. Actually, I think the sunflower oil may produce a more natural product, including the gum Arabic and xanthan gums, both of which are considered more natural ingredients.

In your post, you mentioned "york". Did you mean pork (or sausage) by any chance, or is it something else? And are there slices of fresh tomato on the pizza you showed?

Peter
Peter,

Ok sorry. York is ham ( here we call it "jamón york"
And yes, has natural tomatoes slices.

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1271 on: July 20, 2017, 06:34:02 PM »
Kreetak,

I was hoping to find a photo of a Papa John's pizza here in the U.S. with the same combination of toppings as you showed with your PJ pizza in Madrid. Unfortunately, the PJ places near me do not offer ham as a meat topping. The rest of the toppings (onions, sliced tomatoes, and mushrooms) are available in just about all of the PJ stores. I read that in the past PJ has offered ham as a topping but that was for a special that was offered for only a brief period. But it is still possible that PJ uses ham as a topping elsewhere in the U.S. where there is strong consumer demand for ham.

In any event, your pizza does look similar to the types of pizzas that are made and sold by PJ in the U.S. But your pizza is unlikely to look like the photos that PJ uses on its websites and other advertising materials. Those photos are professional photos that do not bear a lot of resemblance to the pizzas actually made and sold in PJ's stores.

Thanks again for the photos. It is always interesting to see what PJ is doing outside of the U.S.

Peter

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1272 on: July 23, 2017, 07:40:19 PM »
Hi Pete,

I'd like to try your Papa John's Clone Pizza recipe, can you show me your latest dough formulation please? I see the topic's creation date was 2008 so I think you may have made some changes since that time? Thank you
« Last Edit: July 23, 2017, 07:42:04 PM by leto »

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1273 on: July 24, 2017, 02:29:35 AM »
Hi Pete,

I'd like to try your Papa John's Clone Pizza recipe, can you show me your latest dough formulation please? I see the topic's creation date was 2008 so I think you may have made some changes since that time? Thank you
Hi Leto, I'm not Pete, but here goes Pete's post which contains all of his PJ creations to date w/ links to the various versions in one post: https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg60076#msg60076. The only thing that really differs them is that earlier versions used more sugar; 4.8% as opposed to 4.2% or the 4% sugar he used in his 12 hour room temp dough, and maybe a 0.1 - 0.3% reduction in oil, and of course an adjustment of yeast amount depending on length and method of fermentation. You're safe trying any of those PJ recipes from that link, as there really isn't one that is inferior, though Pete <i>did</i> say that the very first PJ clone he made (the one at the very beginning of this thread) w/ the 5-8 day cold ferment was the one he thought best represented what PJ was doing at the time. That to me doesn't mean that the others are inferior to it - I actually prefer the 8-10 hour RT dough so imo it comes down to preference. I'd say try them all starting with the 5-8 day cold dough, or the 8 hour RT dough for a quicker one. Having made pretty much all of the versions I prefer 3.8% to 4.2% sugar and typically do an 8-10 hour RT. Just depends on how sweet I'm in the mood for the crust to be. It's always best to try any recipe verbatim the first time around and tinker from there.

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1274 on: July 24, 2017, 09:14:36 AM »
leto,

The advice that Christian gave you is good advice. I should also note that when I came up with the different versions of the PJ clones, for the most part I posted only those that I felt were credible versions of the original PJ dough that I was trying to reverse engineer and clone. In most cases, the later versions were time savers, and also easier to make than the original version that called for 5-8 days of cold fermentation (and sometimes nine days if one pushed it), which can be hard to do in a standard home refrigerator where people go into and out of many times during the course of the day and where it is difficult to maintain a relatively constant cold temperature as PJ does at its commissaries and in its trucks that deliver dough to their stores twice a week.

I will also note that in addition to the versions I listed in the post that Christian cited, I also posted on other versions that you can consider if you'd like, at:

Reply 35 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg60197#msg60197,

Reply 38 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg60892#msg60892 (this one was not quite like a PJ crust but an interesting departure because of the sourdough starter), and

Reply 48 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg64308#msg64308.

Christian is also right that I modified some of the original versions. That came as a result of my having decided to study the PJ nutrition information for its breadsticks because, as I learned, they are made with their regular dough (you can see this by clicking the nutrition link under the breadsticks at http://www.papajohns.com/company/additional-nutritional-information/sides.html). That made the analysis easier since I did not have to take into account the sauce, cheese and toppings as part of my analysis of the nutrition information.

The above aside, today I decided to go back to the PJ website to see if PJ made any material departures from the ingredients statements and nutrition information from the last time I studied those matters in detail. That was back in about 2013-2014. I did this because PJ has embarked on trying to "clean" up its products because of consumer demand for more wholesome products. What I concluded is that there have been some changes but minor in nature. For example, PJ added extra virgin olive oil to its basic original dough but if the ingredients statement for the dough, as given at http://www.papajohns.com/company/papa-johns-ingredients.html, is correct, the amount of EVOO (last on the list) would be slight--less than the amount of yeast, which is likely to be very small to sustain a cold fermentation over many days at a temperature that is just above freezing (which has lead some critics to claim that PJ's dough is frozen). It also looks like PJ is now using sugarcane fiber in lieu of powdered cellulose in its cheese but for the same purpose (to minimize clumping). There are a few other changes but they are minor based on what PJ is posting at its website.

To complete my analysis, I looked at the current nutrition information for the basic products that I previously studied, mainly the large cheese and pepperoni pizzas and the breadsticks. This information is available at http://www.papajohns.com/company/additional-nutritional-information/index.html and http://www.papajohns.com/company/additional-nutritional-information/sides.html. Again, there were some changes but minor in nature and not enough to suggest that I revisit or re-do my clones. Maybe the changes that PJ made were because of the types of changes I mentioned above, but I cannot say for sure but, in any event, they do not result in material departures from their prior nutrition information.

As for a PJ clone dough that you might start with, you might want to consider the one that I set forth at Reply 585 at:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6758.msg273667.html#msg273667.

For dough preparation and management instructions, I suggest that you use the instructions given at Reply 20 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg59217#msg59217.

I cite the above version at Reply 585 because it is an easy one to make and reflects the version that I believe is closest to what PJ does. That is not to say that you should not try one or more other versions as Christian has suggested. And you can always decide to try the original version if you like the results you achieve with whatever version you decide to try first. Even the original versions are quite good in my opinion and might even be indistinguishable from later versions, given that many recipes can tolerate a swing of a couple or a few percent for ingredients like oil and sugar and flour and water (but not for yeast or salt, of course).

Peter

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