Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza

[Pete-zza]

I don’t know at this time, what is on the agenda next. Do you have any ideas that you would want me to try?

Norma,

I'm not sure that there is a lot that you can do with your current dough formulation other than to possibly tweak it, as by altering the amount of poolish or its hydration. However, that would entail doing more math again to figure out what goes into the poolish and the Final Mix. You perhaps could try other forms of preferments but that would take you into a new cycle of experiments and tests. Maybe down the road that is something that might be considered.

From the business side, I don't think you have the volume to support multiple doughs for multiple pizza types. I would be inclined to think more about product extensions of your current poolish-based Lehmann dough. You have already done that to a great degree with your Sicilian pan pizza, calzones, panini, breadsteaks, pinwheel pizzas, take-and-bake and a few others that escape me at the moment. Of course, the Lehmann dough lends itself to all kinds of toppings and specialty items, which is a different type of extension if there is a sufficient market for specialty pizzas.

Peter

[norma427]

Peter,

I am satisfied with my current formula.    I just meant are there any other experiments on a small scale basis that you wanted me to conduct in the deck oven, for a formula that is already established, to see if a deck oven works differently. Sorry, I didn’t clarify that better in my writing.

Norma

[Ev]

Norma, Thanks for the dough. I made a pie with it for lunch yesterday and it was really really good.(dare I say great?) I didn't get a photo so I'm afraid I cannot share the visual results. It was definitely a bit different from my usual. More airy and crisper around the edge. I think it's a definite improvement to your old recipe. I liked it enough to try a four dough, pre-ferment batch myself yesterday. I made the preferment in the morning and let it out for about 5 hours. It was very active at that point, so I went ahead and made the final dough and put it in the fridge right away. Today, my dough are much more active than my normal dough would be at this point. I'll probably use two tonight and save the other two til Sat. or Sunday.
 I'm looking forward to working for you next week. Thanks for the job.

[Ev]

On second thought, maybe I'll bring one or two to the market next week and try them in your oven, if that's ok with you.

[norma427]

Steve,

Your more than welcome for the dough.  It’s great to hear how the dough worked out for you.  I will be waiting to hear how your recent experiment is going with your dough, now.  I also think this dough is an improvement over my other dough.  I really like how it handles and bakes.  I think it give an Artisan touch and also tastes great with all the bubbles that form when opening the dough. 

It will be great to work with an experienced pizza maker like yourself.    Maybe with our two heads together with can come up with great ideas.  They always say two heads are better than one. I look forward to working with you.  We will probably do different tests with dough to see what can happen with different formulas.  Usually each week I do some kind of test on a dough to see what can happen. 

If you can get your dough to last that long, bring it along and you can try it in the oven.  We should have a great time with all the taste testers I have at market.

Thanks for telling me how the dough worked for you at home.  Did you bake it in your oven or your modified BBQ grill?

Just hope I don't get into talking about making pizza so much and that I burn my pie, like this week.  LOL  You were right, I should have taken a picture of that burnt pizza ,that was thrown in the sink.

Thanks,

Norma

[norma427]

Panouzzo could be another use for the poolish preferment for the Lehmann dough.  I made 3 Panouzzo’s from one dough ball today.  These are the pictures of the Panouzza.

I also talked to Steve (Ev) today and he said he had baked the dough in his home oven.  He also said he made some more pies with the poolish preferment for the Lehmann dough he has made at home and really liked the pies.

For the dead looking dough in reply #399 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9908.msg95680.html#msg95680   I just wanted anyone that is following this thread to know, even though the dough was white and didn’t have any oven spring, the taste of the crust was amazing.  It surprised me.

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Norma,

I was salivating over your Panouzzo (you don't have to thank me for salivating  ). Is the Panouzzo something that you might consider offering at market or is it too much a specialty product to sell profitably?

With respect to your "dead" dough, the byproducts of fermentation that are largely responsible for final crust flavor will survive even as the dough is dying. As long as you can handle the dough and actually be able to form a skin and bake a pizza with it, you will get some really nice crust flavors. You might not get the crust color and the crust might be a bit crackery, but the flavors will survive.

Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

I was salivating over your Panouzzo (you don't have to thank me for salivating  ). Is the Panouzzo something that you might consider offering at market or is it too much a specialty product to sell profitably?

With respect to your "dead" dough, the byproducts of fermentation that are largely responsible for final crust flavor will survive even as the dough is dying. As long as you can handle the dough and actually be able to form a skin and bake a pizza with it, you will get some really nice crust flavors. You might not get the crust color and the crust might be a bit crackery, but the flavors will survive.

Peter

Peter,

LOL..you are making me laugh, again.  The Panouzzo could be an item I would consider at market.  You could divide one dough ball to make 3,4, or even 5 Panouzzo's.  I will try the dough at market and see if I get the same results. I think they would be profitable and I have ingredients now for Panini's, so it might be a possibility.  The Panouzzo were really good.  This preferment dough is so amazing.  You can make almost any dough related product with it...it is like the energizer Bunny...it just keeps going...LOL

For the almost dead dough, I was amazed that is still was easy to form, but then it was only 12". 

Norma

[norma427]

Steve (Ev) and I had a good time working together, yesterday.  He is better opening up the dough than I am. I open up the dough on the marble slab and he opens up the dough on the peel. I will have to watch him more and develop some of his techniques.

Sometimes customers say the funniest things and yesterday was no exception.  A woman was looking at the pizzas in the display case, with her children.  She saw Steve pouring some water into the sauce to make it thinner.  The water jug was the one that had been labeled Queens, NY water.  She then said, no wonder your pies look so good.  Steve and I just looked at each other and laughed.  She then proceeded to buy some pizza.  She said she had lived in Queens, NY for a long while and she couldn’t get any pizzas around here that tasted like NY.  After she ate her slice, she thought the pizza tasted like NY pizzas. I thanked her and she then took a menu and business card.  I explained to Steve about how I had tested NY water in some pizzas a while ago. We both had a good laugh about that one.  I guess it is mind over matter. Of course we didn’t tell her one  way or another if we used NY water. 

We tested some of Steve’s dough in my oven.  He had added whey to his preferment dough.  The taste of his crust was amazing. 

These are a few pictures of my poolish pizza and some cheesy breadsticks from yesterday.

Norma

[Ev]

Norma,

 Thanks again for the job. I had a great time working for you in the pizza biz for the first time ever. Thanks also for the kind words about my dough. I'm glad you liked it. I'll definitely be using whey again. In fact, I froze a gallon last week for future use.
 I've told most of the people I know that I was working for you, so maybe that will help drum up some more business for you.
 I'll probably go to Bova on the next rainy day. Too much outside work to get away right now. I'll look for that sauce when I go.

[norma427]

Steve,

Your more than welcome.  I’m sure you could see that even operating a small one day pizza business, can get very busy at times. Trying to keep the other products made, opening the dough, putting toppings on the pizzas, keeping the customers happy, refilling the sauce, cheese, napkins, doing dishes, watching the products in the oven, giving change, reheating the slices, filling the water in the display case, getting drinks, and all the other things that need to be done, can make you tired at the end of the day. Even with both of us knowing how to make pizzas, we even had trouble keeping pizzas in the display case at the busy times.  Wait until this summer when the tourists and school children are there.  You are in for an experience. LOL It’s a lot different than making pizza at home.

Thanks for saying your would get me some sauce for the boardwalk pizza.

You did a great job and also have a great passion for making pizza. 

Norma

[hotsawce]

Whey in the preferment? Can you explain exactly what kind of whey and the difference in taste? That sounds interesting.

[norma427]

Whey in the preferment? Can you explain exactly what kind of whey and the difference in taste? That sounds interesting.

hotsawce,

Steve made some fresh mozzarella and had the whey left from making the mozzarella.  I will let Steve answer if he sees this, on how he went about using the whey and what amount he used.

Steve did give me some of his mozzarella he made and I just ate some tonight.  It was great. 

I did make a pizza with whey before and really did  like it, but I don't know where I posted it.    I will look and see where I posted about using the whey in dough. 

Steve dough and crust using the preferment and whey was delicious.  I think he made the dough on Thursday and then cold fermented it until Tuesday. 

Norma

[Pete-zza]

I'd be curious to know whether the liquid whey was added to the final mix and whether the total water was adjusted to reflect the fact that liquid whey comprises about 93% water (based on data from http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/dairy-and-egg-products/102/2). Whey is sometimes added to doughs to get increased crust coloration. There is a good article on whey and other dairy ingredients used in baked goods at http://www.bakingbusiness.com/en/Features/Formulating%20and%20R%20and%20D/2010/2/Milks%20Magic.aspx.

Member Crider has also used fresh dairy whey in dough, as he noted at Reply 26 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9854.msg90329/topicseen.html#msg90329.

Peter

[norma427]

I'd be curious to know whether the liquid whey was added to the final mix and whether the total water was adjusted to reflect the fact that liquid whey comprises about 93% water (based on data from http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/dairy-and-egg-products/102/2). Whey is sometimes added to doughs to get increased crust coloration. There is a good article on whey and other dairy ingredients used in baked goods at http://www.bakingbusiness.com/en/Features/Formulating%20and%20R%20and%20D/2010/2/Milks%20Magic.aspx.

Peter

Peter,

I will PM Steve and see if he can answer your questions.  Last week Steve looked over the poolish preferment formula I had at market and said he was going to try it at home.  When he brought the dough to market Tuesday to try in my oven, he then told me he had added the whey to the formula.  I couldn't believe his dough lasted that long, but the dough really looked great and handled well. As I said before, the taste of his crust was delicious.

Norma

hotsawce,

Here is when I used whey in the dough. http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,10213.msg90845.html#msg90845

Norma

[norma427]

Another use for the poolish preferment dough can be used for “Root’s Market Day Pizza.”  I decided at the last minute to try and enter a contest by Pizza Fusion, for “Earth Saving Pizza” and used this poolish dough, I normally use at market.  The market day pizza is the one that has the veggies. 

The first picture of the pizza with pepperoni is the one I make at market each week and the picture was taken yesterday. 

The second pizza of the pizza with pepperoni was Steve’s poolish preferment dough with his whey in the final dough mix.

The picture of Steve’s Garlic Alfredo Sauce with jalapenos and yellow and red onions was his poolish preferment with whey used for the total weight of the water. 

The taste of both of his crusts were amazing and both of his pizzas tasted great!

The picture of the Santa Sweets was taken at market yesterday.  It can be seen that the price at market for these tomatoes are 1.50.

Steve said he would look under this thread and answer questions about the whey in the dough.

Norma

[norma427]

rest of pictures

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Norma,

Thanks for keeping us up to date on your progress with the Lehmann poolish-based pizzas. They all look very inviting.

It would be interesting to see photos of Steve's (Ev's) pizzas using the same recipe (as modified to use the whey liquid) but baking the pizzas in his home oven.

Peter

[norma427]

Peter,

There is always something new to use this Lehmann poolish based dough for.    My local pizza man just gave me a new idea to try.  In the coming weeks I will also try that.  I talked to him Monday night when I was in his business.  I showed him some pictures on my camera of the pizzas I am now making.  He said, what an improvement from the pizzas I used to make. He also asked me if I will share some ideas and give him some dough balls to try.  I am going to take him some dough balls and see what he thinks.  He hasn’t tasted my pizzas.  He is too busy running his pizza business. Seven days a week is a long week. 

Steve said he is going to be making pizzas at home this weekend.  Hopefully he will be able to provide some pictures.  He bakes some pies in his home oven and also in his outdoor grill.

Thanks,

Norma

[Mad_Ernie]

That crust looks amazing, Norma.  Very colorful toppings, too. 

I don't think I can hold off now until Saturday for pizza! 

-ME